Are Golfers Finally Starting to Balk At Driver Prices?

[TENBUCK]

I'm at the age(retirement) where we play for a few bucks, pride and a beer. Don't get me wrong...we are competitive as hell, but if my swing hasn't improved over the years and father time has slowed my SS down...there no amount of new clubs with whatever claims that they make will make me any better. Play to a 15...and I'm happy at that.  If I do have to make a club purchase...it probably won't be new. If you look at the profit margins of the club companies, they're doing very well...just pushing the envelope to see where the breaking point is.

[chisag]

1 minute ago, TENBUCK said:

I'm at the age(retirement) where we play for a few bucks, pride and a beer. Don't get me wrong...we are competitive as hell, but if my swing hasn't improved over the years and father time has slowed my SS down...there no amount of new clubs with whatever claims that they make will make me any better. Play to a 15...and I'm happy at that.  If I do have to make a club purchase...it probably won't be new. If you look at the profit margins of the club companies, they're doing very well...just pushing the envelope to see where the breaking point is.

 

... I booked a fitting for my 80yr old playing pard but couldn't be there with him. He gained 20 yds with the Paradym and 40gm Ascent senior shaft. He is playing an older Ping with an R flex shaft he was fit into some 5 years ago but 75 to 80 takes a toll. He is caught between wanting 20 more yards and not wanting to pay $600. I think we could take some time and demo some older models and find him close to 20yds with the right shaft and more spin as I don't think he will pay the $600 and don't blame him.  

[funkyjudge]

By the way, I am a professional Clubfitter and at age 73 (74 next month), I have seriously cut back on my clubfitting work and the amount of work that I do for the OEM golf equipment and high-end shaft manufacturers that I represent.  However, I still do between 4 or 5 to as many as 8 clubfitting sessions as well as sell several Fujikura, Mitsubishi, KBS and other aftermarket shafts and a few Tour Edge clubs and club sets every month. This added income supplements my retirement income very nicely, and enables me to to buy new golf gear and take at least a golf trip or two every year if I want to do so.

[jbern]

4 hours ago, Golfspy_Lukes said:

Hate to break the news to you, but this happens in every industry 

TVs, cars, phones, etc

Yet internet golfers are the only once’s that whine about it incessantly

If you don’t need a new driver, don’t buy one. If someone has the money to buy new clubs whenever they want, then more power to them. 

I was going to post pretty much this exact sentiment. I don’t want to spend the money, so I’m not going to get something brand new. The people that want to spend the money, should. 

Edited February 20, 2023 by jbern

[wely324]

Fargiveness… “all I hear is far”

All I hear is marketing bs. Meanwhile the guys in the commercial are still using last years driver in competition. Cause this years isn’t any better, it just looks different and they slapped a #2 on it.

 

 

[funkyjudge]

5 minutes ago, chisag said:

 

... I booked a fitting for my 80yr old playing pard but couldn't be there with him. He gained 20 yds with the Paradym and 40gm Ascent senior shaft. He is playing an older Ping with an R flex shaft he was fit into some 5 years ago but 75 to 80 takes a toll. He is caught between wanting 20 more yards and not wanting to pay $600. I think we could take some time and demo some older models and find him close to 20yds with the right shaft and more spin as I don't think he will pay the $600 and don't blame him.  

He could probably start by looking at the Ping G410 and maybe even the Callaway Rogue ST drivers (the G410 will almost certainly be much more reasonably priced because it is two generations old). If he gets a chance to try and to dial-in the Rogue ST driver, he should be able to find a variety of options on Callaway Preowned, depending on how particular he is regarding condition). I managed to find like-new Rogue ST 3H/L and Heavenwood on Callaway Preowned, and both were discounted by $125-$140 below retail prices. The Rogue ST drivers in similar condition are currently discounted by about $200-$230.

[DymnDog]

In my day job, I evaluate cost-effectiveness between prescription drugs from the perspective of a health insurance company reviewing said prescription drug for their members. The fundamental concepts I use apply very well to determine whether a new driver is 1.) "cost effective" and therefore, you should buy it.... OR 2.) it is not cost-effective and you stick with your old driver... or 3.) you evaluate another driver. 

1.) An evaluation is always between two alternatives: a.) Your current driver and b.) The new driver in question.

2.) There are two factors: The COST of getting the new driver versus sticking with your current driver (which is zero because you already bought it) and the EFFECT of the new driver versus sticking with your current driver. What constitutes EFFECT is subjective and individualized... but every person has in their mind what they would want to see changed if they are looking to get a new driver. (If you plan to sell your old driver then it lowers the overall cost and should be taken into account)

3.) When comparing two drivers, the buyer needs to first determine if the new driver is more EFFECTIVE than their current driver (using whatever definition they have come up with for efficacy) because if it's not... it's a no-brainer to not buy it. Assuming that the new driver is more effective than the old driver, the buyer then needs to quantify how much more effective the new driver is (again...the definition of effectiveness is subjective and individualized). Finally, they apply whatever that measurement of more effectiveness is to the cost of the driver and ask themselves "Is gaining this additional effectiveness (whatever it is) worth the cost?" The threshold for saying that a new driver is "cost-effective" or not will vary between individuals.

Long story short... there will always be some shoppers who'll pay anything for the slightest advancement. There will also be people who will not spend another dime on their driver (unless it breaks) no matter how amazing the advancements. But as the price goes up...that threshold that tells a shopper the effect gained is worth the price will shift... and we seem to have found a tipping point.

 

[MarcB11]

17 hours ago, GolfSpy_BNG said:

I’m probably a prime example of a fool and his money are soon parted as my current setup Srixon ZX5 MKII LS and autoflex shaft  is pushing the grand mark and I’m still gonna try the Paradym/Wilson/Mizuno. 
 

As for the price going up, I see the bigger problem being how much the discount becomes when buying last years. Right now secondhand driver heads from last year land around $300 depending on condition. I wouldn’t be surprised if we see the used market price start to rise instead of new prices coming down if the oems aren’t selling as much as they think they should. 
 

 

Last year I decided to try a fitter. I ended up purchasing a new Callaway Rogue ST Max LS driver with stock Mitsubishi Blue Stiff shaft for $700 CDN based on fitters recommendation after trying al lOEM's. It took over 4 months for it to arrive. I practiced and played it but I was not happy with how it was performing. Put my previous gamer (Sim Max Ventus Red) back in the bag and my performance improved immensely. Just hoping I can get some of my money back on this driver as trade-in values are $260.00 or EBay $450ish?

[chisag]

4 minutes ago, wely324 said:

Fargiveness… “all I hear is far”

All I hear is marketing bs. Meanwhile the guys in the commercial are still using last years driver in competition. Cause this years isn’t any better, it just looks different and they slapped a #2 on it.

 

... So what loft are you buying? 


... I enjoy Marketing but have to admit the new Cobra ad is pretty frustrating. Shows a guy starting to workout like the Pro's then balks at any training as too difficult and Rickie say "Or he could just buy an Aerojet".  I don't mind Marketing like this driver is Longer or Better or a Must Own or New Technology but I hate this one because it sends the wrong message. Do not workout, just buy a new driver when working out will produce more distance than any new driver and improve the quality of everyone's life. 

[null]

10 minutes ago, chisag said:

 

... So what loft are you buying? 


... I enjoy Marketing but have to admit the new Cobra ad is pretty frustrating. Shows a guy starting to workout like the Pro's then balks at any training as too difficult and Rickie say "Or he could just buy an Aerojet".  I don't mind Marketing like this driver is Longer or Better or a Must Own or New Technology but I hate this one because it sends the wrong message. Do not workout, just buy a new driver when working out will produce more distance than any new driver and improve the quality of everyone's life. 

The new Cobra ad is the worst piece of golf club advertising I've seen since the TaylorMade Speed Police

[RickyBobby_PR]

1 hour ago, RayP said:

Seems like every six months they are coming out with the next best thing. I know technology changes pretty fast these days. I was always under the assumption that the club shaft was the motor. So I can definitely see where that technology comes into play. Seems like they should focus on the shafts a little more. Instead of using a $3.00 stock shaft just a guess on that’s painted a different color each year. 

What company releases a new club every 6 months? And as I have posted in other threads the shaft isn’t the motor. It’s not as important as many think it is.

2 hours ago, GPS111 said:

Agree with this one. For me driver prices went from ridiculous to sublime several years ago.  Now they are where I don't  look at them any more.  Way too much money for a club I'll use 14 times or less per round with no real distance advantage over what I currently have.  Yes materials and technology are improving but does that always translate to consistent performance on the course?  Golf is player vs the course.  Pick the tools that do the best job for you, not by what the marketing says.   Second to that is maintenance. Break a shaft and the fix is over $300.  Or when the new club "stops working" (as they always do) and you tinker, the same $300+ to try something different.

14 times a round is true but how many rounds do you play and how Lon do you keep the driver in the bag. Most people have clubs in the bag for 3-5 years before they replace it so the $500-600 over that period of time is actually pretty cheap.

If you break a shaft and it’s where the manufacturer considers it to be in a section that fall under their warranty they will replace it (it not caused by a human leaning on it).

Clubs don’t just stop working. 

[GolfSpy_BNG]

3 hours ago, Golfspy_CG2 said:

Actuallly I have one of the 2023 models arleady and 2nd one willl be arriving next week

You aren’t alone Rob!  I’m currently hitting one and will more than likely have at least 2 more ordered next week

[Patpott]

I think the golf industry has finally hit the limits of pricing.  Personally, I reached my limit a few years back (Ping G400) as to what I'm willing to pay for a driver.  I don't mind paying to get fit, but I'm more than willing to wait for a price/condition/specifications combination on Ebay before taking the plunge.

[GolfSpy_APH]

1 hour ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

What company releases a new club every 6 months? And as I have posted in other threads the shaft isn’t the motor. It’s not as important as many think it is.

Key being his wording of seems like* i get that perception. Maybe it isn't one OEM, but with different release cycles it can often feel like there is a new product coming out time and time again. 

For gear heads like us we love it, for others it may just seem like another new big name driver which should out perform the last one (regardless of OEM).

We have any new members so they may not see your other threads and discussion. Lots and lots of first time visitors. Which is great! 

Shaft may not be as important as some may think, but it does play a part and a role. If anything through Otto phlex I have become more appreciate of certain shafts which I have become comfortable with. Let's not dismiss that for some it may play a larger role on their swing than for others.

[GolfSpy BOS]

21 minutes ago, GolfSpy_APH said:

Key being his wording of seems like* i get that perception. Maybe it isn't one OEM, but with different release cycles it can often feel like there is a new product coming out time and time again. 

For gear heads like us we love it, for others it may just seem like another new big name driver which should out perform the last one (regardless of OEM).

We have any new members so they may not see your other threads and discussion. Lots and lots of first time visitors. Which is great! 

Shaft may not be as important as some may think, but it does play a part and a role. If anything through Otto phlex I have become more appreciate of certain shafts which I have become comfortable with. Let's not dismiss that for some it may play a larger role on their swing than for others.

For me the shaft is certainly not the most important part, and I know that going from a “mid” to “low” launch shaft might not do what we think it will from the descriptions of them, but it plays a major role in how playable a club is for me. 
 

It seems in one of those that are more sensitive to changes in feel and it can really throw off my ability to stay in sync with a club to hit it consistently. 
 

finding the right shaft to pair with a given head is important for me. And FWIW I tend to get along best with the club that offer a softer handle and stiffer tip. 

[RickyBobby_PR]

2 minutes ago, GolfSpy_BOS said:

For me the shaft is certainly not the most important part, and I know that going from a “mid” to “low” launch shaft might not do what we think it will from the descriptions of them, but it plays a major role in how playable a club is for me. 
 

It seems in one of those that are more sensitive to changes in feel and it can really throw off my ability to stay in sync with a club to hit it consistently. 
 

finding the right shaft to pair with a given head is important for me. And FWIW I tend to get along best with the club that offer a softer handle and stiffer tip. 

Exactly. The shafts role is to provide weight and feel. A fiend of mine fits into Hzrdus yellow but he hates the feel. Tensei orange which is also CB like the yellow but with a different profile feels better and provides numbers that are equivalent to the yellow.

 

[Langstonha]

22 hours ago, GolfSpy_APH said:

I guess I will answer your question with another question or kinda statement.

Do you think the customers you have who likely have been fit before are knowledgeable enough that they feel there is better value in buying last year's release at what would be half the price? 

More golfers are being fit, more golfers are getting more knowledge and maybe this in turn is leading to "smarter" purchases. Or more value purchases knowing they can get 95+% of the performance at 50% of the price. 

Makes since to me.  I for one can't afford the new prices but wait and they come down when the newer products come out.  Maybe a trade up program would work for some.

[Jim Shaw]

16 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

Exactly. The shafts role is to provide weight and feel. A fiend of mine fits into Hzrdus yellow but he hates the feel. Tensei orange which is also CB like the yellow but with a different profile feels better and provides numbers that are equivalent to the yellow.

 

I don’t think that is the shafts purpose, I believe it is to maximize whatever your trying to achieve in your game. 

[RickyBobby_PR]

3 minutes ago, Jim Shaw said:

I don’t think that is the shafts purpose, I believe it is to maximize whatever your trying to achieve in your game. 

From a retired European fitter who worked with numerous tour players, high level ams and the general public. He has more data than most fitters 

https://forums.golfwrx.com/topic/1860305-shafts-when-to-change-and-when-to-tweak-lofts/

Some myth busting by Tom Wishon 

 

https://www.golfwrx.com/6419/tom-wishon-talking-to-wrx-readers-10-myths-about-shafts-factual-info-about-shafts-to-help-you-all/

[G56788]

Is it just the driver sales or are club sales down across the board? I’m inclined to think that people just have less money to spend on golf now that everything else is more expensive. And if faced with the choice, a golfer will give up new equipment for a year or two or ten in favor of spending that money on “necessities” (greens fees and golf balls). No matter how good a club is, it’s worthless if you are not playing. 

[Golfspy_CG2]

12 minutes ago, G56744 said:

Is it just the driver sales or are club sales down across the board? I’m inclined to think that people just have less money to spend on golf now that everything else is more expensive. And if faced with the choice, a golfer will give up new equipment for a year or two or ten in favor of spending that money on “necessities” (greens fees and golf balls). No matter how good a club is, it’s worthless if you are not playing. 

Good question, it's a bit too early for us to see on the other parts of equipment.  Drivers are usually the first thing purchased each year...at least in our shop.   Irons tend to be the next, but they dont' start really selling until closer to the spring when we have outside fitting days.  Putters are hit and miss all year.  Oddly enough they are probably the piece of major equipment we see turned over the least amount, and that matches my personal habits.  I haven't bought a putter since the spring of last year, and dont' have any plans right now to buy a 2023 one. 

[mackdaddy]

On 2/19/2023 at 4:48 PM, Golfspy_CG2 said:

As some know. I work at a course and do a lot of the fitting and all the equipment sales there. 
 

This year (going back to the fall) has been a big driver release year. Titliest having launched the TSR line and PING relaxing the G430 after 2 years and the buzz about the Paradym.   Add on Stealth2, Aerojet, Mizuno. Srixon all having new models. 
 

But we have seen a noticeable decline in driver sales and interest so far.  I know it’s early in the season.  But it’s a lot less than last year.   There is some talk about the Paradym and people are asking about the G430.  But no real buying internet. 
 

So this has be thinking that maybe OEM have finally reached a price threshold that consumers are saying, No more! . Many of the drivers hitting $600 and even $750 plus for a premium shaft.  
 

I know there are many retail guys here and those of us ho’s who usually buy w due year, what do you all say?

I work at a course in No Va. part time and received a TSR 3 driver for payment of same menu writing I did for the club.  I will be very slow to pay over $500 for the minor gains that are left to be had.  The TSR is well worth having because it is so forgiving and now that I have it I don't see much more gains to be had for me.

[Coachbutt]

I know that I'm out of the mix on this. At 75 yrs old, 5'7", 140lbs, my current driver Big Bertha 5yrs old $160 Calloway Pre Owned hits fairways consistently. 599$ is out of my budget. Putters for 399$ fugget about it..I see many 14s chasing new when they should be practicing short game. Humble Opinion. 

[Rickp]

I purchased PXG 0311 driver last week.  Price $300 was enticing.  Would not have bought it if it was priced higher, $300 is my max.  At 76 years old may be my last driver, maybe not.  
min our 4some this morning was a 81 year old and he’s not buying any more clubs unless his are stolen or broken.  

[Toddlemm]

This year the price point has been reached. Too much for a club that may give 5 yards extra distance. I am out of the driver market for the next 2/3 years.

[Tropicalgolfer]

I can only speak for me, but YES the big OEM's have lost their minds with regard to pricing.  I'm out.

[6 Million Dollar Man]

Quote

 

 

9 hours ago, Golfspy_CG2 said:

 

A very good point on PXG.  Because they are private we will never really know what the balance sheets says on salees/profits etc.   But having had a set of their irons and driver, I know they are very good quality and perform pretty well, the driver I was fit for last year wasn't much better than the current one I had.   But with the price at $199 or even $299 I might be more inclined to taka a flyer on it versus one that is $599.

That is a one off for sure, if that is even true, I can't recal.  But I can promise you 20 years go the going price fo rmost drivers was $199 to $299,. 

COVID: If it contriubuted to a large increase of sales, we will never truly know. You have to to think it did to some extent due to all the new players taking up the game.  But being at a course that was shut down then opened up Most new plyers did not come in and buy clubs right off the bat.  They either had some hand me downs or bought some second hand.  evenutualy they found they enjoyed the game and some got fit an dordered new clubs.

But golf bieng played has not slowed down at all.  2022 was our best year ever for rounds played.  And yes as peopole go back to the offices they may not be playing quite as much during the day, but they have been replaced with those that retired or left he work force that are still playign during the day that couldn't get times before. 

We will see if the trend of reccord rounds continues this year.  But early indicatins are that they will.   Our leagues dont' even start until middle of April and they are already full.  We have 12 weeks of summer camp with over 400 kids that sold out last month. 

 

Had an interesting conversation about the future of golf and how us boomers dying off or getting too old to play would drive some clubs out of business.  I think Covid may have saved the day by introducing the game to some younger generations such as Gen X, millennial, etc.  That would be an interesting study.

Edited February 21, 2023 by 6 Million Dollar Man

[FreddyTheBearCat]

I think the golf content creators have a bit to do with it as well.  When Rick Shiels hits an old WarBird 300 yards you think, maybe it's me, not my driver lol when Peter Finch plays a round with actual hickory shafted clubs and makes par....I think people realize, as much as you want to, you can't buy a golf game.

[Dweed]

If you have the bucks go for it. I drive a 2011 PU with 157,000 miles on it and it stills works fine. I drive with a G400 that is 6 years old and my fairways hit % still in upper 60's as is my age. I'm comfortable with that. I have accepted that my distance has seen the best days past. Goals now are to enjoy tomorrow's round more than today's round.  I'm not embarrassed to purchase second hand or past years models if I need to.

[TylorJudd]

Even at my point in life in my 30's playing pretty good golf. I won't buy brand new. There are incredible bargains out there once you know what you need. Pay for a fitting then buy used and you're still saving money.