Is Club Champion worth it?

[golfinnut]

I don't have many choices in my area for fittings.  Club Champion, 2nd Swing, & local clubs.  From what I'm reading here, CC isn't really the way to go unless you want to spend a bundle.  I guess it matters how much you want to get out of your game & how deep your pockets are in order to achieve that.  

[RickyBobby_PR]

20 minutes ago, golfinnut said:

I don't have many choices in my area for fittings.  Club Champion, 2nd Swing, & local clubs.  From what I'm reading here, CC isn't really the way to go unless you want to spend a bundle.  I guess it matters how much you want to get out of your game & how deep your pockets are in order to achieve that.  

Nobody has to spend money on clubs from CC. That is a separate business they have. You ou for a fitting. That’s it. If you want to buy from them then you can but it’s not a requirement.

Also if you tell the fitter what your budget is they will work with that. Once the fitting is over you get your specs and can source the clubs however you want whether it’s direct from the manufacturer, using a club builder or from a retail shop. Heck you can even attempt to do it on forums and ebay.

As was mentioned going to a place like CC expands the options of what one can be fit into, but it’s ultimately on the consumer to inform the fitter if their intentions

[Middler]

20 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

Nobody has to spend money on clubs from CC. That is a separate business they have. You ou for a fitting. That’s it. If you want to buy from them then you can but it’s not a requirement.

Also if you tell the fitter what your budget is they will work with that. Once the fitting is over you get your specs and can source the clubs however you want whether it’s direct from the manufacturer, using a club builder or from a retail shop. Heck you can even attempt to do it on forums and ebay.

As was mentioned going to a place like CC expands the options of what one can be fit into, but it’s ultimately on the consumer to inform the fitter if their intentions

IOW don't go to Club Champion if you just want to be fitted for one of the standard shafts many club makers now offer at no additional cost. And don't go to CC if you're not sure what your budget is, because like any for profit business they will recommend something well above off the rack prices. Otherwise we're in complete agreement.

Quote

I had an unsuccessful fitting at Club Champion, but it’s probably because my sole objective was unlikely to be fixed by fitting. That’s my fault.

• If you want to optimize distance and/or launch, a fitting by a qualified fitter will probably provide good results, for players of almost any ability. Lessons still may be more helpful for high HI players, but you can’t know for sure without trying both.
• If you have a bias to the right or left, a fitting might be helpful, but it may be partially or wholly a swing fault (lessons).
• If you want to tighten dispersion, a (Club Champion) standard fitting is unlikely to help, and they won’t tell you that - or they would have turned me away.  Lessons are far more likely to help. [That was my situation that I incorrectly applied to other fitting goals. I had no issue with distance or launch. I explained my MO several times but it was lost in discussion, and I drew conclusions too broadly as well]
  • For a fitting to improve dispersion, a very different methodology would have to be used.
• And even Club Champion will admit they can’t fix swing faults, they don’t sell “magic sticks” (their term).

There may be other expectations that are within or outside what a fitting can likely help with.

I still contend that some people recommend fittings as a cure all for the wrong reasons, but my view was far too narrow. Live and learn…

 

[RickyBobby_PR]

9 minutes ago, Middler said:

IOW don't go to Club Champion if you just want to be fitted for one of the standard shafts many club makers now offer at no additional cost. And don't go to CC if you're not sure what your budget is, because like any for profit business they will recommend something well above off the rack prices. Otherwise we're in complete agreement.

For some people this might be the only or the best option to get fit. Finding a competent fitter in some areas isn’t easy. I personally wouldn’t go because I prefer to see the actually ball flight. 

[ChitownM2]

I agree that for many people there aren't a lot of other options.  I live in a major market and there are only a couple of choices of local independent fitters (not TrueSpec or Cool Clubs as they are basically the same as CC) that carry all of the major brands.  There are a lot of local pro-shops that might carry one or two fitting carts but finding a place that carries all of the big 5 plus mizuno, srixon, etc is extremely difficult.  

The big box stores are an option that have all makes, but I've found that unless you personally know of a particular staffer who is competent and can get in with that person and that person only, it isn't worth your time. My experience has been that most of them are not as knowledgeable as they would lead you to believe and you could probably do just as well by educating yourself on fitting (which is to say not very good).

[Curtcat73]

Go see Daniel Clemmons at Clemmons Golf on Pelham Rd near top golf. He was the fitter at the Eagle Zone before Haas bought it and put in Club Champion. I had him fit my irons and driver. Great guy and extremely talented at fitting. I give him a 11 out of 10. He spent almost 2 hrs with me on my driver and still charged me only $70.  I had a teaching pro I know in VA tell me to use him. I was glad I did. 

[EvilIncarnate]

If you get the right fitter, they are worth it! Stay away from the Raleigh, NC location! bought an 1100 driver for my wife, and it wasn't even spec'd right upon delivery.

[RickyBobby_PR]

1 hour ago, EvilIncarnate said:

If you get the right fitter, they are worth it! Stay away from the Raleigh, NC location! bought an 1100 driver for my wife, and it wasn't even spec'd right upon delivery.

Did the Raleigh fitter not send in the right specs for the build or was the build wrong compared to what was sent in? If it’s the latter that’s not the Raleigh fitter’s mistake it’s the builder in Illinois 

[Dr Strangelove]

On 8/4/2021 at 10:19 PM, flyingwedges said:

They only receive heads, and not full shafts from the OEM.  Everett was an early adopter of SST Pure so they may have had input into the technology as it evolved, giving Nick the opportunity to buy it.

Like others have noted, that makes it even worse.  They charge you full retail for the club as if it came with the stock shaft though they don't pay for it.  Then they add the full retail of the aftermarket shaft.  Not the upcharge for a shaft.  The full retail for the aftermarket shaft.  So you've paid full price for two shafts and get one.  And they've only paid for one too.

[SD1199]

Recently had a fitting with Club champion and while the fitting was a good experience the pricing wasn't.  They fitted my in to the new Titleist t-200 being released at the end of the month with Project X shafts.  What the fitter didn't' realize is these shafts are available as stock from Titleist.    They quoted be $2,500 in total and I can get the same exact clubs for $1,600 ordering direct.  I don't buy a $900 markup because they are going to build the clubs.    I found another local fitter that was actually a better experience and while didn't end up with the t-200s.  His pricing was only $250 more then the manufacture which I found reasonable.

[RickyBobby_PR]

3 minutes ago, SD1199 said:

Recently had a fitting with Club champion and while the fitting was a good experience the pricing wasn't.  They fitted my in to the new Titleist t-200 being released at the end of the month with Project X shafts.  What the fitter didn't' realize is these shafts are available as stock from Titleist.    They quoted be $2,500 in total and I can get the same exact clubs for $1,600 ordering direct.  I don't buy a $900 markup because they are going to build the clubs.    I found another local fitter that was actually a better experience and while didn't end up with the t-200s.  His pricing was only $250 more then the manufacture which I found reasonable.

The quote more than likely has a fee per shaft for flowing/spineing the shafts. Plus their build fee 

[Middler]

On 8/7/2021 at 9:37 AM, Dr Strangelove said:

Like others have noted, that makes it even worse.  They charge you full retail for the club as if it came with the stock shaft though they don't pay for it.  Then they add the full retail of the aftermarket shaft.  Not the upcharge for a shaft.  The full retail for the aftermarket shaft.  So you've paid full price for two shafts and get one.  And they've only paid for one too.

You pay for two shafts, two grips, two adapters, two assembly charges and double shipping costs. It's not just shafts they shaft you on. And they could conceivably reuse the grip and/or the adapter even while charging you twice...

[CarlH]

Club Champion is a very expensive build.  You will pay full retail for the original clubs, full retail for the shaft, full retail for components, then their build fee.  Having said that, they do build the club to exact standards that they spec at the fitting, not that that justifies their pricing model.  OEM builds are not as diligent with their build process, from my past experiences.    I once custom ordered a set of Callaway and when they arrived, I had to adjust the loft and lie on 5 out of the 8 clubs.  I didn't swing weight them at the time, but I doubt they were all consistent.

CCs outrageous build pricing aside, the fitting experience that I had was good.  Few places can offer the full extent of club head and shaft combinations that CC can.  Nothing stopping anyone from finding the best club and shaft combinations for their swing at CC then having someone else build them, including OEM.  

I ordered my clubs from CC when I was fit but I would do it differently in the future.  I would go through the fitting process but buy the clubs through another source.  Of course, my experience is based on having been fortunate to have been with a good fitter at the location where I was fitted.  I'm sure there are some bad apples out there at other locations, just like you might find a good fitter or a ho-hum one at a big box store fitting booth.

[NC Golfer]

Ok aside from being expensive. For your average Joe, non-tournament player. Honestly, how many strokes does one save in a round for a CC build? Same question for a CC fitting and self source? I have always added a half inch of length to my clubs as my custom order and a regular shaft, normal lie angles. Seems to work out fine. 

[Dr Strangelove]

4 hours ago, Middler said:

You pay for two shafts, two grips, two adapters, two assembly charges and double shipping costs. It's not just shafts they shaft you on. And they could conceivably reuse the grip and/or the adapter even while charging you twice...

Good grief

[ChiefMikeOfficer]

On 8/7/2021 at 8:37 AM, Dr Strangelove said:

Like others have noted, that makes it even worse.  They charge you full retail for the club as if it came with the stock shaft though they don't pay for it.  Then they add the full retail of the aftermarket shaft.  Not the upcharge for a shaft.  The full retail for the aftermarket shaft.  So you've paid full price for two shafts and get one.  And they've only paid for one too.

 

14 hours ago, Middler said:

You pay for two shafts, two grips, two adapters, two assembly charges and double shipping costs. It's not just shafts they shaft you on. And they could conceivably reuse the grip and/or the adapter even while charging you twice...

I've noted this in other longer posts here, but I think the best strategy (at least for woods) is to buy shafts from CC, not full clubs. That means you need a head that works for you first, and you don't necessarily get out any cheaper, but it makes the CC cost easier to swallow. That strategy is best for someone who actually wants an after-market / "can't get as an upgrade" shafts (it's like going to a specialty shop). CC is not nearly as good for someone that ends up in a stock or available upgrade shaft.

They don't overcharge for after-market shafts, but their full club build costs are not worth the money (in my opinion). The last driver shaft I got from them cost me $30 more than I would've paid from another retailer that carries that brand (outside of fitting fee, which at this point is spread across multiple shafts and an iron set), and that $30 is only because I wanted to keep my old shaft with the adapter intact (I could've had them use my old adapter and not pay the $30 extra) -- I also waived the $15 for the grip because I had some extras in my basement and just slapped one on when it showed up. I had no problem with the price because they were my entry point to that brand -- the two closest Accra dealers to me are in Milwaukee (Club Champion) and Dubuque. 

[SD1199]

16 hours ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

The quote more than likely has a fee per shaft for flowing/spineing the shafts. Plus their build fee 

This was before the "puring Fee"  Regardless it is a stock club from Titleist charging a build fee of $90 per club seems excessive.  

[RickyBobby_PR]

15 minutes ago, SD1199 said:

This was before the "puring Fee"  Regardless it is a stock club from Titleist charging a build fee of $90 per club seems excessive.  

The independent builders I have used charge some fee for the build or they have it included in the price of the clubs/shafts so you pay it somewhere/somehow with them. That’s paying for the time of the builder. 

[SD1199]

Understand.   I found a local top 100 fitter and builder who was able to provide clubs at approx $300 over the cost direct from the manufacturer.  Much more reasonable.   The issue with Club Champion is they said they don't buy the shafts from Titleist and order them separate. If that is the case no way are they paying the full price for the shaft+ heads.    In addition all of their marketing says they charge the same price as you could buy elsewhere.  The mistake my fitter made was not checking that this was a stock shaft.  My understanding is they try to avoid providing you a set up you can price shop.    

[ChiefMikeOfficer]

34 minutes ago, SD1199 said:

Understand.   I found a local top 100 fitter and builder who was able to provide clubs at approx $300 over the cost direct from the manufacturer.  Much more reasonable.   The issue with Club Champion is they said they don't buy the shafts from Titleist and order them separate. If that is the case no way are they paying the full price for the shaft+ heads.    In addition all of their marketing says they charge the same price as you could buy elsewhere.  The mistake my fitter made was not checking that this was a stock shaft.  My understanding is they try to avoid providing you a set up you can price shop.    

They can get them directly, and they should have given you the option -- sounds like an error by your fitter (judgment on intentional vs. unintentional is up for debate), or if they really don't have the option anymore, then it's a change in their offerings. When I bought my Mizunos from them in 2019, they said they could either get them from Mizuno or order them separately -- cost direct from Mizuno was no different from me ordering them, except they push for upgrades like PURE (pull/pure/reassemble added some cost per iron). That left three options on the table: "Same price as Mizuno", "+$300 for direct plus retro-PURE", or "+$600 to get shafts through CC" (rough estimates - I don't remember the actual figures). I chose option 2, and have no idea if it actually made a difference