Shaft Hack - The Otto Phlex Journey

[GolfSpy TCB]

Added the 8g slider weight back into my TSR3 with the PLB-L shaft.... had two measured drives over 270 yards in 9 holes - other drives were over 250.  I think it is my sweet spot.

[GolfSpy_APH]

I apologize i haven't been able to keep up with thread as much as i would like, but for those who have tried much of this my question is do you feel it is more weight or stated flex on the shaft that is making the difference?

[GolfSpy BOS]

14 minutes ago, Golfspy_TCB said:

Added the 8g slider weight back into my TSR3 with the PLB-L shaft.... had two measured drives over 270 yards in 9 holes - other drives were over 250.  I think it is my sweet spot.

 

 

That's awesome Tim! Sounds like you won't be needing that TSi3 head... I'll send you my shipping information. 

[GolfSpy TCB]

16 minutes ago, GolfSpy_APH said:

I apologize i haven't been able to keep up with thread as much as i would like, but for those who have tried much of this my question is do you feel it is more weight or stated flex on the shaft that is making the difference?

In my opinion the answer is a guarded "yes".  I don't think it is stated flex as much as actual shaft profile... I think @azstu324did a great job early on to talk about flex profiles between several options and most specifically the torque to maintain the best control.  Some work much better than others based on those profiles.  The total weight as a factor, but also the swing weight that in my strong opinion is one of the most important aspects to the success.  Finding that best balance of maximum flex, with control of the club face at impact is the secret sauce.  It just feels right when you get the combination correct. 

I have tested softer flexed shafts in the past (senor flex for example) but paid no attention to the SW. And I was spraying shots all over the place.  Once I dropped 2 (or 2.5) flexes, and targeted the best shaft profile and experimented with swing weights to maintain best control over the face... it just feels right.  Hard to explain, but it really does.

May not technically answer your question @GolfSpy_APH but I have a brand new TSR3 head in the L shaft.... in my bag.  It is staying there for a while.  And I REALLY want to employ this experiment on a set of irons!!  (the pxg 0211 in L flex are calling my name)

[azstu324]

16 minutes ago, GolfSpy_APH said:

I apologize i haven't been able to keep up with thread as much as i would like, but for those who have tried much of this my question is do you feel it is more weight or stated flex on the shaft that is making the difference?

For a lot of us who this has worked for, I think it's (can't remember who said it) like a Goldilocks situation. Shaft weight + flex/feel + length + swing weight. The secret is getting all of those dialed in. I tried a slightly heavier shaft earlier in the thread and it just didn't end up being optimal for the driver. In my 3 wood however it's been fantastic! 

 

 

[azstu324]

13 minutes ago, azstu324 said:

For a lot of us who this has worked for, I think it's (can't remember who said it) like a Goldilocks situation. Shaft weight + flex/feel + length + swing weight. The secret is getting all of those dialed in. I tried a slightly heavier shaft earlier in the thread and it just didn't end up being optimal for the driver. In my 3 wood however it's been fantastic! 

 

 

Or in other words.. what @Golfspy_TCB said

 

[David Leighton Reid]

Due to being curious and intrigued by the Otto Phlex thread, I have wound up with a back up driver, 3 wood, and lighter, more flexible shafts.

PXG Gen 5 0311XF 9 degree driver with 45" Fuji Air Speeder Blue 45 R

PXG Gen 4 0341XF 3 wood with 43" Fuji Air Speeder Blue 45 A (tipped 1")

I also picked up a PXG 0211 7 wood that I installed a Project X Evenflow Riptide CB 40 senior flex trimmed to 42", which originally came with the driver.  

My plans are to play my Ping driver and 3 wood with Ventus Velocore blue shafts on Saturday and change out to the PXG woods on Sunday.  I will then compare my scores, fairways hit, ball striking, and feel.  The experiment of dropping 2 flexes didn't work out for me with the driver so I am working on a gradual approach to lighter and more flexible shafts.  

 

Edited November 4, 2022 by David Leighton Reid

[PACK7483]

5 hours ago, Golfspy_TCB said:

In my opinion the answer is a guarded "yes".  I don't think it is stated flex as much as actual shaft profile... I think @azstu324did a great job early on to talk about flex profiles between several options and most specifically the torque to maintain the best control.  Some work much better than others based on those profiles.  The total weight as a factor, but also the swing weight that in my strong opinion is one of the most important aspects to the success.  Finding that best balance of maximum flex, with control of the club face at impact is the secret sauce.  It just feels right when you get the combination correct. 

I have tested softer flexed shafts in the past (senor flex for example) but paid no attention to the SW. And I was spraying shots all over the place.  Once I dropped 2 (or 2.5) flexes, and targeted the best shaft profile and experimented with swing weights to maintain best control over the face... it just feels right.  Hard to explain, but it really does.

May not technically answer your question @GolfSpy_APH but I have a brand new TSR3 head in the L shaft.... in my bag.  It is staying there for a while.  And I REALLY want to employ this experiment on a set of irons!!  (the pxg 0211 in L flex are calling my name)

I just got the new 0211 irons with the MMT 80 stiff shafts. I bet those in the 50 gram L or the Cyprus L shafts would be amazing.  I am coming from DGS300 and the lighter weight graphite has been amazing so far.  I honestly could of probably went with the A or Regular flex MMT and got more distance with the same great control I have now.  

[Bobbers]

6 hours ago, GolfSpy_APH said:

I apologize i haven't been able to keep up with thread as much as i would like, but for those who have tried much of this my question is do you feel it is more weight or stated flex on the shaft that is making the difference?

For me it's definitely the cpm of the shaft, the weight change for me has been negligible in the extreme.

[Bobbers]

5 hours ago, David Leighton Reid said:

Due to being curious and intrigued by the Otto Phlex thread, I have wound up with a back up driver, 3 wood, and lighter, more flexible shafts.

PXG Gen 5 0311XF 9 degree driver with 45" Fuji Air Speeder Blue 45 R

PXG Gen 4 0341XF 3 wood with 43" Fuji Air Speeder Blue 45 A (tipped 1")

I also picked up a PXG 0211 7 wood that I installed a Project X Evenflow Riptide CB 40 senior flex trimmed to 42", which originally came with the driver.  

My plans are to play my Ping driver and 3 wood with Ventus Velocore blue shafts on Saturday and change out to the PXG woods on Sunday.  I will then compare my scores, fairways hit, ball striking, and feel.  The experiment of dropping 2 flexes didn't work out for me with the driver so I am working on a gradual approach to lighter and more flexible shafts.  

 

I'll say again that I believe, based on my experience (yeah, I know, a "one point curve"...) that the bend profile of the shaft is every bit as important as weight/flex in terms of outcome.  I've suggested to other posters in the thread that it might be useful to use the Maltby "playability profile" or whatever they call it, with the Pro Launch Blue as the template.

[GolfSpy TCB]

30 minutes ago, PACK7483 said:

I just got the new 0211 irons with the MMT 80 stiff shafts. I bet those in the 50 gram L or the Cyprus L shafts would be amazing.  I am coming from DGS300 and the lighter weight graphite has been amazing so far.  I honestly could of probably went with the A or Regular flex MMT and got more distance with the same great control I have now.  

I was looking at the MMT and the Cyphers... how do you like the heads?  What did you come from?

[GolfSpy TCB]

7 minutes ago, Bobbers said:

I'll say again that I believe, based on my experience (yeah, I know, a "one point curve"...) that the bend profile of the shaft is every bit as important as weight/flex in terms of outcome.  I've suggested to other posters in the thread that it might be useful to use the Maltby "playability profile" or whatever they call it, with the Pro Launch Blue as the template.

We need a +1 reaction button... I wish I knew how to get in touch with the mods to ask about that  haha. 

[Bobbers]

9 minutes ago, Golfspy_TCB said:

We need a +1 reaction button... I wish I knew how to get in touch with the mods to ask about that  haha. 

My apologies for restating something I've posted earlier, won't happen again.

[GolfSpy TCB]

11 minutes ago, Bobbers said:

My apologies for restating something I've posted earlier, won't happen again.

No, no, no Bobbers, what I meant was I agree with your comment... by saying "exactly what he said... I am +1 on that comment"   

It was me wanting to repeat you

 

[cksurfdude]

3 hours ago, PACK7483 said:

I just got the new 0211 irons with the MMT 80 stiff shafts. I bet those in the 50 gram L or the Cyprus L shafts would be amazing.  I am coming from DGS300 and the lighter weight graphite has been amazing so far.  I honestly could of probably went with the A or Regular flex MMT and got more distance with the same great control I have now.  

I actually had the earlier 0211s with the MMT in 70/R; then .. and somehow before this experiment blew up the forums .. switched to a newer set with the MMT 60/A tipped 1/4" (so there wasn't _too much_ action in the tip) - and they're working very nicely for me!

As an aside, I never checked the SW on them (have a basic balance beam scale) but have added 1-2, or 3, grams of lead tape to the heads.

[cksurfdude]

2 hours ago, Bobbers said:

I've suggested to other posters in the thread that it might be useful to use the Maltby "playability profile" or whatever they call it, with the Pro Launch Blue as the template.

^^ that is THE way to search for and select shafts imo!

[PACK7483]

1 hour ago, cksurfdude said:

I actually had the earlier 0211s with the MMT in 70/R; then .. and somehow before this experiment blew up the forums .. switched to a newer set with the MMT 60/A tipped 1/4" (so there wasn't _too much_ action in the tip) - and they're working very nicely for me!

As an aside, I never checked the SW on them (have a basic balance beam scale) but have added 1-2, or 3, grams of lead tape to the heads.

I was fitted for half inch short, and PXG said the SW in the 5 iron is probably around C9. 

[Tim A]

Having done plenty of testing and forget the Autoflex.

The BGT Brava shaft is much better at half the cost. I have been hitting a Project X T1100 in 65 at 6.0. Love it. It specs at

10.0 in tip

9.7 in mid

9.5 in butt

I just built the Brava in X at 58 gram and tipped it an inch and play to 45.75.

First tee at one off my two courses picked up

15 yards hit it low and it goes hit it high and it goes and you don’t have to go after it just smooth it. I have not profiled the shaft yet but it is not a stiff as my project x but the Brava is so stable and has tremendous feel 

if you check around you may be able to get for $325-350

Be sure to give a try it is so much better than the Autoflex which I have done testing.

 

[Bobbers]

I've applied the concept of the Otto Phlex to the irons.

Methodology was simple:

I'm playing a set of Mavrik Max irons.  Found a new 7 iron head touted for women, they call it a "lite" head.  Snagged one figuring I could do a direct Mavrik Max/Mavrik Max comparison if I built it right.  Grabbed three Grafalloy ProLite L flex iron shafts off ebay for the build.

Ended up with a 37.5 inch club to get the D0 swing weight compared to my 37 inch 7 iron.  Could not, for the life of me, find tipping instructions for the shaft so I just tipped it 1 inch figuring more flex was in keeping with the concept we're exploring.

The feel of the club was wonderful.  Higher flight and a bit more distance by a few yards during my testing.  Still not sold on the shaft, however, I think I can do better.  Soooo, found a set of six Aldila HM graphite iron shafts that were pulls from a ladies set of irons for a very, very moderate price and they're on the way.   Going to swap out the ProLite for one of the Aldila HM shafts.  Had those same shafts in some Cobra hybrids I played a few years ago and they're similar in many ways to the PLB.

My bottom line, and again it's just one opinion, is that "the jury is still out" on how this will play out in the irons.  Driver, fairway woods, and hybrids?  Yes, for me they all work with L flex; nice feel, higher ball flight and definitely more distance across the board.  Irons are "tbd". 

Hoping the weather here in Wisconsin holds for a few more days so I can do real life testing.

[DukeStKing]

Played a quick 7 holes on a rainy evening- very soft. I was able measure 5 drives and I averaged 258. I was putting it places that I do on good days when it’s dry and hot. In the cooler weather my irons were 10 yards shorter today for an additional reference. I really need to get on my friend’s Trackman so I can compare my Grafalloy Otto Flex to my Ventus. Oh, and I was 5/5 in fairways- even hit some extra drives - they all hit the fairway. 
I’ll get on the Trackman after I get the Low Spin head I ordered and really do some comparisons. 
I did hit one bomb that was hill assisted- it cancelled out the one I hit 228 uphill. 

[GolfSpy TCB]

On 11/5/2022 at 8:40 AM, Bobbers said:

I've applied the concept of the Otto Phlex to the irons.

Methodology was simple:

I'm playing a set of Mavrik Max irons.  Found a new 7 iron head touted for women, they call it a "lite" head.  Snagged one figuring I could do a direct Mavrik Max/Mavrik Max comparison if I built it right.  Grabbed three Grafalloy ProLite L flex iron shafts off ebay for the build.

Ended up with a 37.5 inch club to get the D0 swing weight compared to my 37 inch 7 iron.  Could not, for the life of me, find tipping instructions for the shaft so I just tipped it 1 inch figuring more flex was in keeping with the concept we're exploring.

The feel of the club was wonderful.  Higher flight and a bit more distance by a few yards during my testing.  Still not sold on the shaft, however, I think I can do better.  Soooo, found a set of six Aldila HM graphite iron shafts that were pulls from a ladies set of irons for a very, very moderate price and they're on the way.   Going to swap out the ProLite for one of the Aldila HM shafts.  Had those same shafts in some Cobra hybrids I played a few years ago and they're similar in many ways to the PLB.

My bottom line, and again it's just one opinion, is that "the jury is still out" on how this will play out in the irons.  Driver, fairway woods, and hybrids?  Yes, for me they all work with L flex; nice feel, higher ball flight and definitely more distance across the board.  Irons are "tbd". 

Hoping the weather here in Wisconsin holds for a few more days so I can do real life testing.

I think I mentioned before... I am really anxious to try out this concept in irons.  So I'm watching your comments closely @Bobbers.  I guess my biggest speed bump is figuring out which iron shaft to try.  Knowing that the PLB is a great fit for my swing... and also cross referencing that with the limited options in an iron "L" flex at full length... I get overwhelmed pretty quickly.  Can't wait to see your next post. 

Re: the driver - I have been having so much fun with the "L" shaft that I haven't taken the time to re-validate my findings by doing more testing between this shaft and the standard "R" flex I was fit into.  But I really want to do that to make sure I'm not just enjoying the honeymoon period - and I'm not turning a blind eye to some performance issues.  

Of course the fairways in my bag are also on the list if I am sure about the performance of the driver.... and especially if I see some enhanced performance from O-PH shafted irons.  Fairways become a no-brainer at that point.  

[azstu324]

1 hour ago, Golfspy_TCB said:

Of course the fairways in my bag are also on the list if I am sure about the performance of the driver.... and especially if I see some enhanced performance from O-PH shafted irons.  Fairways become a no-brainer at that point.  

I finally got a chance to get out today. It's been a couple of weeks due to a bunch of stuff going on. Getting ready for a move in a couple of weeks, and my work schedule just moved to mandatory 10 hr Saturdays . So my regular Saturday rounds are toast. 

So I'd been very much looking forward to getting out today. Well, I'll throw out a cautionary bit of advice.. don't watch YouTube golf instructional videos late at night.. because in the event that you come across a video that entices you to go get your driver and start swinging in your living room at 11:30 at night, you could very easily forget to put it back in your bag, get to the course the next day, and realize you're playing your round sans driver. (Insert homer Simpson gif.. "doh". 

Well luckily my trusty OttoPhlex 3 wood was in the bag. I finally thought to get some yardage on the last hole but was definitely not missing much in order to get home. Was hitting some really nice mid-launching tight draws. This one actually just crossed over into the rough when it landed so I'm certain that there was an extra 5-10 yds left to be had if it had hit the fairway 

 

[Bang60]

On 11/6/2022 at 2:40 AM, Bobbers said:

I've applied the concept of the Otto Phlex to the irons.

Methodology was simple:

I'm playing a set of Mavrik Max irons.  Found a new 7 iron head touted for women, they call it a "lite" head.  Snagged one figuring I could do a direct Mavrik Max/Mavrik Max comparison if I built it right.  Grabbed three Grafalloy ProLite L flex iron shafts off ebay for the build.

Ended up with a 37.5 inch club to get the D0 swing weight compared to my 37 inch 7 iron.  Could not, for the life of me, find tipping instructions for the shaft so I just tipped it 1 inch figuring more flex was in keeping with the concept we're exploring.

The feel of the club was wonderful.  Higher flight and a bit more distance by a few yards during my testing.  Still not sold on the shaft, however, I think I can do better.  Soooo, found a set of six Aldila HM graphite iron shafts that were pulls from a ladies set of irons for a very, very moderate price and they're on the way.   Going to swap out the ProLite for one of the Aldila HM shafts.  Had those same shafts in some Cobra hybrids I played a few years ago and they're similar in many ways to the PLB.

My bottom line, and again it's just one opinion, is that "the jury is still out" on how this will play out in the irons.  Driver, fairway woods, and hybrids?  Yes, for me they all work with L flex; nice feel, higher ball flight and definitely more distance across the board.  Irons are "tbd". 

Hoping the weather here in Wisconsin holds for a few more days so I can do real life testing.

I've found my set lady of shafts so now I need to find some heads, actually tried to set them up for my older brother but he didn't like them in his old ping zings. Thanks to this post @Bobbers I'm thinking I know why, head weight plus this was years back and I didn't check swing weight etc. Oh well never mind lol, hey nobody tell him ok..

[Bobbers]

9 hours ago, Golfspy_TCB said:

I think I mentioned before... I am really anxious to try out this concept in irons.  So I'm watching your comments closely @Bobbers.  I guess my biggest speed bump is figuring out which iron shaft to try.  Knowing that the PLB is a great fit for my swing... and also cross referencing that with the limited options in an iron "L" flex at full length... I get overwhelmed pretty quickly.  Can't wait to see your next post. 

Re: the driver - I have been having so much fun with the "L" shaft that I haven't taken the time to re-validate my findings by doing more testing between this shaft and the standard "R" flex I was fit into.  But I really want to do that to make sure I'm not just enjoying the honeymoon period - and I'm not turning a blind eye to some performance issues.  

Of course the fairways in my bag are also on the list if I am sure about the performance of the driver.... and especially if I see some enhanced performance from O-PH shafted irons.  Fairways become a no-brainer at that point.  

If it were me I'd consider looking for a Fujikura Vista Pro in the R1 (they don't use the l/r/s/x nomenclature) and try it in something like a 7 or 8 iron that you're familiar with.  Closest shaft I've found over the years to the PLB.  Again, just a thought.

[GolfSpy TCB]

1 hour ago, Bobbers said:

If it were me I'd consider looking for a Fujikura Vista Pro in the R1 (they don't use the l/r/s/x nomenclature) and try it in something like a 7 or 8 iron that you're familiar with.  Closest shaft I've found over the years to the PLB.  Again, just a thought.

Just taking a look at the available options for the shaft you mentioned above... should that be R3 instead of R1 flex?  Looks like the R3 is the ladies flex equivalent.. at least on the site I was looking at.  Thank you for the tip

[Bobbers]

15 minutes ago, Golfspy_TCB said:

Just taking a look at the available options for the shaft you mentioned above... should that be R3 instead of R1 flex?  Looks like the R3 is the ladies flex equivalent.. at least on the site I was looking at.  Thank you for the tip

Yeah, they sometimes use different nomenclature; if the R3 is what they currently call "ladies" that's the one I'd focus on.

While I wait for my Aldila HM shafts to arrive I managed to snag a set of Adams V4 irons, 7/8/9/P/GW for next to nothing with Mitsubishi Bassara shafts.  It's a shaft I'm familiar with and by extending any particular iron by about 1/2 inch I'll hit the D0 sweet spot.  I'll put that up against the Mavrik Max that'll be built with one of the HM shafts and against my current Mavrik Max which should give me a much better idea of what's what when it comes to the irons and the O-PH idea.

[BMart519]

17 hours ago, DukeStKing said:

Played a quick 7 holes on a rainy evening- very soft. I was able measure 5 drives and I averaged 258. I was putting it places that I do on good days when it’s dry and hot. In the cooler weather my irons were 10 yards shorter today for an additional reference. I really need to get on my friend’s Trackman so I can compare my Grafalloy Otto Flex to my Ventus. Oh, and I was 5/5 in fairways- even hit some extra drives - they all hit the fairway. 
I’ll get on the Trackman after I get the Low Spin head I ordered and really do some comparisons. 
I did hit one bomb that was hill assisted- it cancelled out the one I hit 228 uphill. 

Hell of a 2 putt from there. 

[azstu324]

7 hours ago, Bang60 said:

I've found my set lady of shafts so now I need to find some heads, actually tried to set them up for my older brother but he didn't like them in his old ping zings. Thanks to this post @Bobbers I'm thinking I know why, head weight plus this was years back and I didn't check swing weight etc. Oh well never mind lol, hey nobody tell him ok..

For those looking to try this out in the irons, check out Maltby's stuff. The heads might not be your jam.. or they might, but these 2 have removable weights for SW adjustability and @ less than $30/head it's worth a shot to pick up a 7 iron or maybe a PW. 

 

[BadgerRick]

I played in a tournament over the weekend, didn't expect much due to working a ton, and 7 weeks out from knee surgery. I hit a few with my Epic Speed with the PLB at the range, and it was either a smash, or hanging out to the right with a little block. I only trusted it to use once during the round though, and was on fire with my 300 mini driver, and hit a few around 310 with that, which has an X flex shaft. I do think just hitting the soft shaft has really helped my timing of the release. 

[carter18]

Ok, phew! Took me several days of sporadic reading, but I have finally caught up on the thread. I currently play a Mitsubishi C6 blue in 70g X flex and placed my order today for a Grafalloy PLB 45A. My swing speed is very similar to Stu's from the initial post and this has been super intriguing. It really resonated with me because in a recent trip to top golf with my wife and a friend couple of ours I had an experience that seemed to come full circle reading through this thread.  With my driver I was sitting in the 156-160 ball speed on the top golf monitors for most of the day.  I play a Callaway Epic Flash Sub Zero in 10.5 turned down to 9.5. On a whim I grabbed the women's driver which was a Callaway Rouge ST Max Women's (no idea what shaft was in it). After a few swings I smoked one that registered 169 ball speed. I thought nothing of this really and figured it must have been some sort of malfunction although the flight while a bit of a pull was the straightest ball I hit the entire session and hit the middle of the net still rising. While reading through this thread, that day continues to come to mind and now I am in it to find out how to replicate those ball speed #s. I should have my shaft in sometime this weekend and will update with some testing numbers.

 

Side question for you do it yourself club builders. Anywhere you recommend going to find reasonably priced club building supplies. I have been gripping my clubs for several years, and have recently used the do it yourself swing weight using the suggestions in the post. Current driver set up came in at just over D6 btw.  I would like to figure out how to remove applicator tips to reuse without ruining old shafts and would also like to get a bit more into home setup building.  Recommendations for necessary home club building tools or supplies?

 

Thanks in advance, and I look forward to venturing down the rabbit hole with you!