Shaft Hack - The Otto Phlex Journey

[SkateboardGolf]

16 minutes ago, azstu324 said:

Are you able to check the Swing weight? Also, what's your playing length. That has been a topic here that has yielded a lot of discussion. @ 45" and D1-D2 the club doesn't feel overly light in the transition and it's very controllable with crazy good contact 

Thanks for your reply!
Shaft length is 44.125" from end of grip to end of TaylorMade adjuster.
I removed both adjustable weights (see photo) and have found a +3-5mph increase in swing speed. It feels ridiculously light now.
Am I on the right track?

[azstu324]

Deleted 

[azstu324]

54 minutes ago, SkateboardGolf said:

Thanks for your reply!
Shaft length is 44.125" from end of grip to end of TaylorMade adjuster.
I removed both adjustable weights (see photo) and have found a +3-5mph increase in swing speed. It feels ridiculously light now.
Am I on the right track?

So right now I'd get your swing weight figured out. Anything sub 45" and you might be getting too light with the SW. I don't know if I'd remove them until you know your Swing weight. Take out too much weight and you lose some good inertia that's very important for creating smash factor that results in ball speed, etc 

[Vernon]

14 hours ago, azstu324 said:

Most of us just had to start by hitting balls. Initially I was coming through too quickly and had to slow my tempo. Sounds weird but in slowing my tempo, I actually sped up my swing with the OttoPhlex. It doesn't do well with aggressive delivery and really is a great tempo aid. 

Are you able to check the Swing weight? Also, what's your playing length. That has been a topic here that has yielded a lot of discussion. @ 45" and D1-D2 the club doesn't feel overly light in the transition and it's very controllable with crazy good contact 

What he said!  

I didn't fall out of bed hitting this thing great and started out hitting low pull hooks.

For me it took a few balls on the range to make the transition as I had to make some changes to my overall tempo and especially aggressiveness on the downswing and through impact.

To me one of the major benefits of the OttoPhlex is how easy it is to swing fast even if it's not that much faster than your previous shaft on some swings.

The effortless speed and power that it generates is especially beneficial for an old guy like me.

It wasn't like I couldn't hit my Tensei Pro Orange 65 stiff at all it's just so much easier to hit the MP5 or Pro Launch equally far with much less effort and occasionally quite a bit farther with the same swing.

My recent experience coming off an injury really confirmed that for me as I was hitting the OttoPhlex 250 plus consistently and over 290 occasionally literally swinging off of one leg.

And at 70 years old there's no way ever I could have done that with the heavier and stiffer Tensei. 

And most guys seem to have had similar experiences in that it takes a little tinkering to get the length and swing weight just right but that's not anything new when you think about it.

I mean you probably didn't settle on your previous setup without a little testing and experimenting as well so I say toss all previous thoughts and beliefs out the window for a couple of weeks and have some fun playing around with this thing!

P.S. 

For what it's worth I just ordered another Pro Launch yesterday in the ladies flex to try out next as my current PLB is a senior flex - there's lots of fun to be had in the journey!

And for sixty bucks what do you really have to lose?

[Vernon]

22 hours ago, IndyBonzo said:

@Vernon It's great to hear you are feeling better!  And those are very impressive results with the MP5.  It sounds like you have found the secret sauce!

Thanks Bonz and me too!

It was only a couple of weeks but it seemed like an eternity not being able to play.

However, as for the "secret sauce" I just ordered another Pro Launch in the ladies flex yesterday to try out next!

I'm having too much fun playing around with this deal to stop now!

 

 

[SkateboardGolf]

Thanks for the replies! I am somewhat encouraged. 
Bought a digital kitchen scale from Walmart and got the swing weight between D1 and D2. 
Off to the course I go - will report back. 

[rlb4]

I'm looking to get both the Grafalloy PLB and the UST MP5 to give this a try. I'm trying to decide between the A and L flexes for each. I'll be using it in a Tour Edge E723 head(193g) and putting an All Fit adapter on them. My swing speed is about 90mph but can fluctuate a few mph depending on how stiff or loose I am. My typical driver carry is around 215-225 and total around 235-245. I am kind of in between R and S flexes. I like the stability of the S flex but it definitely feels like more work to load it. My thought was to get the L flex in each since that is 2 flexes below R(which is probably a better fit for me). Additionally, if I found the L flex was too soft I could always tip it an inch to get it similar to the A flex. Thoughts?

[IndyBonzo]

7 hours ago, rlb4 said:

I'm looking to get both the Grafalloy PLB and the UST MP5 to give this a try. I'm trying to decide between the A and L flexes for each. I'll be using it in a Tour Edge E723 head(193g) and putting an All Fit adapter on them. My swing speed is about 90mph but can fluctuate a few mph depending on how stiff or loose I am. My typical driver carry is around 215-225 and total around 235-245. I am kind of in between R and S flexes. I like the stability of the S flex but it definitely feels like more work to load it. My thought was to get the L flex in each since that is 2 flexes below R(which is probably a better fit for me). Additionally, if I found the L flex was too soft I could always tip it an inch to get it similar to the A flex. Thoughts?

Having a swing speed that is a bit higher than yours but not crazy so, I would say based on my experience that you should not ignore shaft weight and torque in your analysis.  For me, the PLB L flex (44g, 5.0 torque) was too light and twisty for me to control effectively.  My buddy loves his PLB A flex (44g, 5.0 torque).  When I tried the Grafalloy GWX A flex (52g, 4.8 torque) it got a lot better for me, which I attributed to the extra weight and somewhat lower torque.  The UST MP5 L flex (50g, 4.6 torque) has been the personal sweet spot however, especially after getting my D2 swing weight dialed in, reducing head loft, and shifting to a lower spin ball.  Based on all that it seems -- for me -- that lower torque and a bit more weight were the key elements for the shaft.  But I think it is a very personal thing.

All that is to conclude that finding the right combo for you may take a little tinkering.  I like your plan to try the L flex, and tip it if it's too flexible (but query what that does to the torque).  

I hope this is helpful to you @rlb4!  Good luck!

[rlb4]

15 minutes ago, IndyBonzo said:

Having a swing speed that is a bit higher than yours but not crazy so, I would say based on my experience that you should not ignore shaft weight and torque in your analysis.  For me, the PLB L flex (44g, 5.0 torque) was too light and twisty for me to control effectively.  My buddy loves his PLB A flex (44g, 5.0 torque).  When I tried the Grafalloy GWX A flex (52g, 4.8 torque) it got a lot better for me, which I attributed to the extra weight and somewhat lower torque.  The UST MP5 L flex (50g, 4.6 torque) has been the personal sweet spot however, especially after getting my D2 swing weight dialed in, reducing head loft, and shifting to a lower spin ball.  Based on all that it seems -- for me -- that lower torque and a bit more weight were the key elements for the shaft.  But I think it is a very personal thing.

All that is to conclude that finding the right combo for you may take a little tinkering.  I like your plan to try the L flex, and tip it if it's too flexible (but query what that does to the torque).  

I hope this is helpful to you @rlb4!  Good luck!

Thanks. Did you ever try your friends PLB A flex? Not sure how tipping will effect the Tq but both the PLB L and A flex are the same 5.0 Tq. It seems in this thread that most of the people who used the PLB A flex were in the 100+ mph swing speed range. Only a few were around 90 mph that tried the L flex. @Vernon will be getting the PLB L flex and I believe his ss is about 90 mph. He also has the A flex so we should be able to get some good comparison of the A vs L at 90mph ss.

[azstu324]

1 hour ago, rlb4 said:

Thanks. Did you ever try your friends PLB A flex? Not sure how tipping will effect the Tq but both the PLB L and A flex are the same 5.0 Tq. It seems in this thread that most of the people who used the PLB A flex were in the 100+ mph swing speed range. Only a few were around 90 mph that tried the L flex. @Vernon will be getting the PLB L flex and I believe his ss is about 90 mph. He also has the A flex so we should be able to get some good comparison of the A vs L at 90mph ss.

One word of caution about tipping these PLB shafts is that they only have a 2" parallel tip. My swing speed started around 110 mph and I'm quite content with the A-Flex. I did cut 1/2" off the tip in assumption that it might tighten up the torque just a hair. 

I wouldn't go more than 1/2"

[IndyBonzo]

2 hours ago, rlb4 said:

Thanks. Did you ever try your friends PLB A flex? Not sure how tipping will effect the Tq but both the PLB L and A flex are the same 5.0 Tq. It seems in this thread that most of the people who used the PLB A flex were in the 100+ mph swing speed range. Only a few were around 90 mph that tried the L flex. @Vernon will be getting the PLB L flex and I believe his ss is about 90 mph. He also has the A flex so we should be able to get some good comparison of the A vs L at 90mph ss.

Yes - I built the A flex for myself first then he fell in love with it.  Sounds like you are on the right track. 

[rlb4]

2 hours ago, azstu324 said:

One word of caution about tipping these PLB shafts is that they only have a 2" parallel tip. My swing speed started around 110 mph and I'm quite content with the A-Flex. I did cut 1/2" off the tip in assumption that it might tighten up the torque just a hair. 

I wouldn't go more than 1/2"

Thanks for the "tip". I should be good with the L flex if I'm at 90mph and you're at 110mph with an A flex.

 

Edited July 12, 2023 by rlb4

[Ding-dong]

I managed to break my 7 wood shaft last night… collateral damage I am afraid and me finally releasing my frustration!

I did seriously look at OP ing up as driver and 3wood are. The head weight is 224g and the shaft in it was a Diamana 60S .. so 64g shaft.

However after some serious contemplation I don’t think I get anything extra. I worried about height and spin… I could adjust the head being a 0341x gen 2. But then like a hybrid you select to fit in a yardage window. So seeing as I like everything about it I decided to stick and replace with like for like. 
 

But it would be interesting to discuss what options would suit..

I was looking at low launch low torque or stiff tip 

[azstu324]

If anybody's on the fence and still wondering if this experiment is worth it.. WLD champ Martin Borgmeier would say it is..

 

 

[Bang60]

4 hours ago, azstu324 said:

If anybody's on the fence and still wondering if this experiment is worth it.. WLD champ Martin Borgmeier would say it is..

 

 

I wonder how often he replaces that shaft give his obvious strength and how he loads up during the swing

[Vernon]

On 7/12/2023 at 11:46 AM, azstu324 said:

If anybody's on the fence and still wondering if this experiment is worth it.. WLD champ Martin Borgmeier would say it is..

That's pretty amazing!

I had to make an appointment with the chiropractor after watching though.

Haven't received the L flex Pro Launch yet.  Placed the order early Monday morning and it didn't ship until late Friday.

Supposed to be here Monday.

They must be pretty busy at Golf Works........

Think I'm gonna go back to doing business with Value Golf after this.

Played a few more times this past week and am still hitting the MP5 pretty danged good.

Although I haven't had many exceptionally long tee shots the last couple of rounds I'm getting it out there in the 240's and 250's pretty consistently with a 270 - 280 or so every six or seven attempts.

Anxious to see what the Pro Launch L flex has to offer though!

 

 

[David Leighton Reid]

I saw on the UST Mamiya website that the MP5 shafts have been discontinued.  

[IndyBonzo]

34 minutes ago, David Leighton Reid said:

I saw on the UST Mamiya website that the MP5 shafts have been discontinued.  

Yes, it's too bad b/c it's such a great shaft.

The UST Mamiya Proforce V2 (A flex 56g) has crazy low torque, and the Gold 55 may also be an option.  Has anyone tried those by chance?

[MuniGolfer]

26 minutes ago, IndyBonzo said:

Yes, it's too bad b/c it's such a great shaft.

The UST Mamiya Proforce V2 (A flex 56g) has crazy low torque, and the Gold 55 may also be an option.  Has anyone tried those by chance?

I think @azstu324 was looking into the V2. Not sure if he ever pulled the trigger though. 

[GolfSpy_APH]

Titleist rep had me try his version of an OttoPhlex type setup. Was some 40 gram stiff shaft with a TSR1 head 12 degree. Carried 255 plus for me and was dead straight. Really had to throttle back and swing at 60% type deal. Was interesting so today tried something similar with my TSi3 and a regular flex hzrdus and lofted the TSi up to 10.5. 

Bottom line I hit some really good drives. On par with what I did with my G430 LST, however just not the same confidence at all. 

[BMart519]

Been hitting the ball very low with driver recently. Going to dust off the PLB and get it out on the course for the first time soon after shelfing it after some range testing. 

[azstu324]

15 minutes ago, MuniGolfer said:

I think @azstu324 was looking into the V2. Not sure if he ever pulled the trigger though. 

Saw the bat signal..

No I never got to try the V2. I opted for the PLB at the time and it was just so good that I didn't try anything else. 

In the meantime, I have more/less stumbled into the UST Helium 4f2 and ProjectX Cypher 50. Both Senior flex. 

The UST was a a friend's that was lying around. It's definitely more whippy than the PLB due to softer tip. It's higher spinning and launching but still a great option if you're in the lower 100's in SS. This is a shaft that I'd probably mostly use for practice to make sure my tempo's in check. I might hit 25 balls and then switch to my gamer. 

The Cypher was the shaft that I was fit into with the Paradym test. I'd say for feel it sits right between the PLB and Helium. I've got a potential other experiment that I might try swapping the Chpher into my PXG 0311. Because of the adapter length difference, it would play at 44.5" instead of 45". A lighter grip and D1 SW might yield some interesting results. 

Of the 3, the PLB just seems to have the best and most consistent #'s for spin and launch and is safely in my Paradym TD with no plans to go anywhere. 

 

[MuniGolfer]

I am still enjoying the mp5, but I need more time with it on the course to see where I am at on the experiment as a whole. I am glad I picked up one of the last ones. I still may get a plb at some point to compare.

[IndyBonzo]

Just an update - had a good chipping and iron range practice yesterday.  At the end of the range time, I hit driver a few times, noticed my ball flight seemed perhaps a bit low, then bumped the loft up 2* to 10* in the Paradym TD with MP5.  It made a big difference.  Now, this is with range balls, so on the course may be different, but I thought I needed to keep ball flight down to limit spin.  This appears not to be the case, as I gained about 10-20 yards of carry with the added loft and focused hip turn (thinking right back pocket aimed at target on backswing).

Loving this OP rabbit-hole!

[BMart519]

On 7/18/2023 at 9:40 AM, BMart519 said:

Been hitting the ball very low with driver recently. Going to dust off the PLB and get it out on the course for the first time soon after shelfing it after some range testing. 

Took the PLB to the range again. It was exaggerating any slices. Still can't bring myself to bring it out on the course compared to my regular gamer which is the Atmos Blue 6S. Especially playing in conditions that are often windy and added rollout in firm conditions can offset most gains from increased carry. 

[MuniGolfer]

4 hours ago, BMart519 said:

Took the PLB to the range again. It was exaggerating any slices. Still can't bring myself to bring it out on the course compared to my regular gamer which is the Atmos Blue 6S. Especially playing in conditions that are often windy and added rollout in firm conditions can offset most gains from increased carry. 

Sorry if you posted this before, but what’s your swing weight with the plb? I ask because I had the same issue with the mp5 until I got the swing weight down under D2.

Edited July 20, 2023 by MuniGolfer

[BMart519]

17 hours ago, MuniGolfer said:

Sorry if you posted this before, but what’s your swing weight with the plb? I ask because I had the same issue with the mp5 until I got the swing weight down under D2.

I didn't get it swing weighted but it played at D2 with a 65-67g shaft, so it would be around D0 at 45 I believe or just under. I spent the offseason and early part of the year increasing my intention to swing driver fast and the shaft really makes me feel like I need to go slow to try and control it. 

It's a shaft I've used since 2019 on multiple drivers and it was giving me ideal numbers at a fitting in 2021 or 2022. So I'm skeptical a different shaft is going to be better than ideal. 

[MuniGolfer]

Yeah, with that swing weight you should be fine. It may be that the plb just doesn’t work for you. I will say, I do feel like I have to swing smoother, but it ends up being faster according to my launch monitor.
 

This morning I got a little quick on transition and skied my first drive. My other two drives were great though. I hit a necky fade 327, then a smashed drive 292 dead into a 5-7 mph wind. It so far feels easier than my gamer. I feel like my x flex shaft is a little better when my sequencing gets off, but the OP seems to keep my swing in better shape so I strike everything a little better overall. I am still getting used to it on the course and trusting it though.

[azstu324]

So here's a weird one.. 

I took the PXG to the range with the Paradym. I had just glued up the PXG tip with the Project X Cypher about 3 hours prior (Golfworks Quick Set epoxy). I know it's advised against to use within 24 hrs let alone 3-4 hrs .. I figured if I kept the shaft in the garage to cure at about 140° that might speed things up a little.

I'd been hitting other clubs for about an hour to give some extra time for the epoxy. I had about 6 balls left and just decided to roll the dice. I took what felt like about 40% swing with the PXG/Cypher playing at 44.5" just to keep from having the head fly off. So shorter length and much slower feeling swing. 

Well the carry distance wasn't far off from what I'd been hitting the Paradym TD all night with the PLB. I literally felt like I was taking slow practice swings but the ball just happened to be at the other end. 

Pretty sure the spin was higher and so was the launch because total rollout was less according to the Toptracer LM that they use. Unfortunately they don't have spin #'s.. I hadn't checked SW prior.. honestly just I forgot. So the next day I weighed it at D4. Definitely too heavy for an OP so I'll tweak the grip weight to get it below D2 and see if anything changes. 

Overall though, a pretty interesting addition to the OP saga. I'll be interested to see how full power swings @ D1-2 SW pan out. TBC. 

[David Leighton Reid]

This past Sunday, I decided to give the PXG driver (with the Graffaloy PLB 45 A flex) a round on the golf course, even though I have been enjoying the Ping driver with the UST MP5 ladies flex.  I had previously installed Karma jumbo grips on both drivers, but had to add lead tape to the heads to get the swing weight up to D0.  So, being the experimenter that I am, I replaced the jumbo grip with a standard size grip and removed the lead tape from the head and my swing weight went to D1.5 on the PXG driver, playing at 45 inches.  On the course, I had a very good round driving the ball and was able to play both cuts and draws.  I like the feel of a bigger grip, so next I am going to try adding a couple of layers of masking tape under the standard size grip to see how much that will effect the swing weight.