What makes a Golf Course a "Good" one?

[GolfSpy_APH]

6 minutes ago, Majmike said:

1.  Cost based on condition of course.  Too many courses charge way too much for average conditions. Bunkers and greens should be in good condition.

2. Pace of play along with good player assistants

3. Courteous staff and good 19th hole.  

4. Multiple tee boxes so all handicaps can enjoy the green        

     especially for women. This also helps attract women to the 

      game.  

5.  Some contributors mentioned challenging, but              unfortunately everyone is  not single digit.   For example I hate courses designed by Jack Nicholas or Pete Dye.   I have played  several of them and find them to be punitive even from                  front  tees.  I sometimes wonder if Jack or Pete even could          get near their handicap.

       

      

I'm going to have an article on the main site that talks about cost... But in a way that you haven't heard before which should really interest you! 

I'll post it on the forum as well but be on the lookout for it!

[Willie T]

Any course - even the more poorly maintained ones have offered interesting challenges in the past.  The ones that stick out have offered great views or interesting hole layouts.  Some thing as simple as good sand in the bunkers, nice greens that offer some neat undulating surfaces or tee boxes that are not threadbare - all make a round enjoyable.  Having a staff that on your first visit makes you feel like family and offers insights into how to play the course and pace of play…..we’ve been pushed when it wasn’t necessary, we’ve been in wait mode when a foursome ahead with no one ahead of them is holding folks up and won’t let singles or doubles play thru….in reality I’ve yet to have a round where I said “I will never play there again”…..love the opportunity to play too much. 

[TuukkaH]

For me, it is a combination of all things. I would say that this is somewhat ordered list that I appreciate in the course:

1. How interesting the course is in general. Is there enough variety between the holes? Is it challenging different level of golfers? How is the course designed so that it is interesting to play only front 9 or back 9.
2. How well is it maintained? Even a great course is not great if it is not maintained well. The fairways need to look good, greens should roll well and there shouldn't be any blank spots. It also affects to experience if the sand in the bunker is wet and hard (has been on the courses where it is almost like clay). I think that designing the roughs is one state of art. 
3. Looks. This is lot dependent on the landscape and how you utilise it. At least I appreciate if the views during the course are beautiful and time to time you can just stop between your hits and enjoy the nature and views. 
4. Driving range & Practice area. Normally I want to spare some time for warm-up before the round. Lot of things have effect also in this experience: Is there enough hitting places at the driving range and is it how far from the clubhouse / 1st tee? What kind of a practice area there is for putting and chipping? How much the range balls are?
5. How far is it? Dedicated golf trips are different thing where you can skip this part. But on regular Saturday / Sunday when you go to play a round of golf, it might be difficult to get the acceptance from your family if it always takes the whole day.
6. Club house & Halfway house. These are the places that can give you the mood boosters before/after/during the course. I appreciate if the selection of food & beverages is wide and fairly priced. The food needs to be tasty and freshly made as well.
7. Others: Those are top things for me. Pro-shops and other things are not on my priorities when rating a course in general.

I think that the price for the course is dependent on those factors. Time to time I am willing to pay more from the round if it puts those mentioned things right. For your regular course, it is probably then a best combination of those mentioned factors.

[Lou Caracappa]

I agree with all the comments so far, variety, use of the whole bag.  Reachable par 5's and a short 4.  Good condition.   Plus good coffee and food.

One more thing to add.  A nice and friendly staff.  Nothing sets a bad tone like a grumpy starter who acts like he/she is doing you a favor by letting you tee off after you made a reservation and paid you money. 

[MarvChamp]

Being pretty old and now being a high handicapper, I really appreciate courses that have taken the time and money to create a variety of tee boxes and/or to designate holes at which different tees may be used.

And like others, I like courses that require me to think and try to get to strategic points to set up the next shot.

And finally, cost...I will pay the price for a bucket list course. But prices are increasing for even the mundane. That prevents many from playing golf, the greatest game ever.

Best, -Marv

[10Hockey]

I believe a great  golf course is one that after you get done playing it  for the first time you can remember at least 12-14 of the holes .  A good example for me is Pastatiempo ; I only played it once a few years ago and I can remember most of the holes , it was a fantastic walk and a great golf course.  A good golf course is one that offers a variety of distances , well maintained not pristine, under $100 during peak season, has food and beverage , and has a driving range to warm up. 

Edited February 14 by 10Hockey

[Erin B]

What makes a course a good one? This is a provocative question. I’ve played a variety of courses ranging from high end to budget. I have played all across the country and I think the most important things aren’t necessary cost, rather the layout, elevation changes, water, sand, yardage variation, green undulation, and speed. The next thing that makes a course “enjoyable” is pace of play and golf etiquette. And I think the ambiance of facilities and staff are important. Cour D’Alene and The Golf Course at Devil’s Tower are two of my measuring sticks as well as TPC courses and La Purisma. The Air Force Academy courses are also fantastic. TPC Colorado has a special place in my heart as well as Highland Meadows and Mariana Butte. Almost all the Hilton Head courses I’ve played are wonderful and New Jersey has some fantastic courses. These are what I consider great courses. Happy Birdie Hunting!!! 

[StrokerAce]

one that requires you to use every club in your bag...

[Q22Golf]

I think it is variety! A good design to keep it challenging but also have some grace on a couple holes, such as a chance to drive a par 4 or a reachable par 5 in two. Things like that. Also, take care of the course. It is nice to be outside and see they are taking care of it. 

[tomdisy]

RED

Rememberable

Enjoyable

Dog (a place your dog would enjoy walking)

 

I can’t remember the author’s name or title, but this comes from a book on architecture I read  

 

[jbern]

On 1/13/2024 at 11:06 AM, cnosil said:

my answer is a definitive I don't know.

I think that's my answer too. My favorite courses in my area are all very different with varying levels of upkeep, groundskeeping, views, beauty, difficulty, staff friendliness, pace-of-play, etc. I would say my opinion on a course almost directly relates to my attitude/outlook on the day I play the course. 

On 2/7/2024 at 9:56 PM, Tom the Golf Nut said:

If a course winds in and out of housing developments, housing on both sides of every hole, I’ll pass or play it once and not go back.

I will say, I ranked my favorite courses in my area and the top 4 have almost no houses visible on the course. So I must value that at least a little bit. 

[Wesleyb22]

Pretty much in line with most other people here. In order I'd say:

1. Value: Is it worth the cost? Cheap course, cheap layout/conditions? Way over-priced? Value is going to be relative. If I'm paying $200 it better have pristine conditions and a good setup. I've played some incredible value $30 and $40 courses around where I live.

2. Challenge Level: I say level because challenging for me might not be challenging for a + handicap. Can I navigate the course and potentially score well with my skill level while also making me think and play well in order to do so?

3. Variety: I struggle with this as a longer hitter. Does it challenge every club in my bag? Forced carries off the tee, doglegs and hazards that required considerations to layup or go for it, decent but fair undulations on the greens, etc. I don't want to play a course that's nothing but hard dog legs or only straight, short par 4's. Too many courses I can barely take my driver out and then others every par 4 & 5 are driver holes.

[GolfSpy_KFT]

The number one factor for me is playing conditions, followed closely by course layout. I enjoy playing courses that require some strategy due to well placed trees and bunkers along the fairways, water hazards that eliminate a club on a tee shot, etc. Grip and rip courses are fun to play on occasion, but the challenge is a bigger allure for me.

Price also plays a role, as the rate should reflect the quality of the course you'll be playing. My home club, bias excluded, has conditions that are equivalent if not better than two resort courses 15 minutes away but nearly $100 less for greens fees. It may not have some of the dramatic hole elements, but it also has significantly less traffic and less beat up fairways due to that traffic. 

I also play a little 9 hole muni a few times a year that is only $22 for a round with cart. It is a short course, but has postmark sized greens and is a really fun track to play. 

[d0m41n]

I love this! And I agree with so many of you.

 

I have to particularly agree with @vandyland. I love a wide open course off the tee box with a challenge on the approach into the green. 

Beyond that, I would have to say a course with different types of challenges. My favorite/home course has two 18 hole courses and each is completely different than the other. While I love a wide open course, I like when they throw in one or two holes where it's threading off the tee box and then opens up.

I also like when there is at least one hole that drives you insane on a course because the reward for playing it well is so much higher. There's a par 4 that is only 325 from the tips but it has a massive pecan tree right in front. Your options are to essentially stinger a ball under, thread one through a gap in the branches (a bit bigger than you think) or you have a very small window to essentially fade/slice it around the tree. While I realistically hate this hole, one of my favorite times playing the course is playing it well because it does challenge me so much. It's also really the only truly frustrating hole so it doesn't completely derail your game.

Last piece to me of a truly good course are the greens. Too many courses have issues (holes, patches, etc) on the green, and while I am by no means a tour player, I hate feeling like a not well taken care of green is why putt went offline.

 

Look forward to reading more from everyone!

[Albatrass]

A good or great course depends on the design, conditions of the course, clubhouse, practice areas, food, staff and cost. 

[KC Golf]

Some very interesting perspectives on what makes a good golf course.  Really enjoying this thread.  

[Cfhandyman]

1 hour ago, TuukkaH said:

For me, it is a combination of all things. I would say that this is somewhat ordered list that I appreciate in the course:

1. How interesting the course is in general. Is there enough variety between the holes? Is it challenging different level of golfers? How is the course designed so that it is interesting to play only front 9 or back 9.
2. How well is it maintained? Even a great course is not great if it is not maintained well. The fairways need to look good, greens should roll well and there shouldn't be any blank spots. It also affects to experience if the sand in the bunker is wet and hard (has been on the courses where it is almost like clay). I think that designing the roughs is one state of art. 
3. Looks. This is lot dependent on the landscape and how you utilise it. At least I appreciate if the views during the course are beautiful and time to time you can just stop between your hits and enjoy the nature and views. 
4. Driving range & Practice area. Normally I want to spare some time for warm-up before the round. Lot of things have effect also in this experience: Is there enough hitting places at the driving range and is it how far from the clubhouse / 1st tee? What kind of a practice area there is for putting and chipping? How much the range balls are?
5. How far is it? Dedicated golf trips are different thing where you can skip this part. But on regular Saturday / Sunday when you go to play a round of golf, it might be difficult to get the acceptance from your family if it always takes the whole day.
6. Club house & Halfway house. These are the places that can give you the mood boosters before/after/during the course. I appreciate if the selection of food & beverages is wide and fairly priced. The food needs to be tasty and freshly made as well.
7. Others: Those are top things for me. Pro-shops and other things are not on my priorities when rating a course in general.

I think that the price for the course is dependent on those factors. Time to time I am willing to pay more from the round if it puts those mentioned things right. For your regular course, it is probably then a best combination of those mentioned factors.

Agreed and well stated. 

1 hour ago, Majmike said:

1.  Cost based on condition of course.  Too many courses charge way too much for average conditions. Bunkers and greens should be in good condition.

2. Pace of play along with good player assistants

3. Courteous staff and good 19th hole.  

4. Multiple tee boxes so all handicaps can enjoy the green        

     especially for women. This also helps attract women to the 

      game.  

5.  Some contributors mentioned challenging, but              unfortunately everyone is  not single digit.   For example I hate courses designed by Jack Nicholas or Pete Dye.   I have played  several of them and find them to be punitive even from                  front  tees.  I sometimes wonder if Jack or Pete even could          get near their handicap.

       

      

Also, agreed and well stated. 

There are many “good” courses.  Did I enjoy myself, have fun and enjoy the round. Was it memorable. We’ve all played a number of good courses, but the experience was meh, okay, average at best. A good course is one that I want to come back to time and time again. Somewhere, I’ll recommend or bring my friends. A number of factors play into that, from the staff are they welcoming friendly and helpful. Is the Course maintained properly and in good condition. Are the greens reasonably quick rather than glacial slow.  Do they have a good range and practice area. Is it scenic, challenging with variety but not quirky or tricked out. I’m attracted to visually attractive courses, with undulation and variety of layout. Does it feel serene and relaxing just walking the course. Value, does it provide good value for the dollar and the overall experience. This is obviously subjective, but even if it’s $100 plus a round, it can still be very good value. 

The Deal breaker for me, is pace of play. I don’t care how great a course it is, if it takes 5 plus hours to play a round, I’m not coming back anytime soon. I.e I hate hurry up and wait golf. If it’s 4 hours or less, I’m much more likely to keep coming back.  Lastly, did I have fun and enjoy the round. Even better when I can have a nice meal and suitable beverage following the round in a nice and comfortable setting. I.e I enjoyed myself and I may or may not have played a good round. 

[Shank Aaron]

This is probably one of the very few "subjective" topics I've ever had the pleasure to read responses from. OP- Well done!

 

For me the answer comes from two questions I ask myself after a round, especially if it's a course I've never played, or don't play often. 

1. Did I walk away from that course knowing I'd score lower with another crack at it?
2. Are there a few holes I want back?

 

Low hanging fruit example for me is Bethpage Black. I left the course from a VGA Tournament and rode home in complete silence running it all back through my mind knowing that if I just played the 2nd/5th/8th/16th/18th holes just a little differently, I could've carded a very impressive score that day. I feel the same way about Twisted Dune, Black Oak CC, Plainfield CC (all in NJ), and Shinnecock (NY). Now don't get me wrong, scenery, history, and quality of company are very important parts, but at the end of the day it all boils down to those two above questions for me. It's just the way I think about the game, I suppose. Things like that stick with me until I get back to the course and prove myself right, or wrong and I'm generally OK with either result if I'm able to put those two things to rest. Of course, there's also the smallest chance that I just get hit in the head a lot and I'm overthinking it, too, but I doubt it. 

[Placasse61]

Well maintained,  beautiful walking, and a variety of different holes and landscape.

[MadisonGolfbum]

The holes have to present an interesting variety of challenges. For example, par 3s play a variety of distances and directions, par 4s and 5s have some dog legs, some straight, and again, different distances. Challenging but fair greens and surrounds. Course has to be in at least decent condition. My test - can I remember the holes a month or so after I played the course.


Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy

[EnderinAZ]

On 1/13/2024 at 11:04 AM, Dooby said:

One thing I’ve learned over the past year is I don’t enjoy courses that have an abundance of blind tee shots. I don’t need tee shots that are easy or overly comfortable but I hate playing a course where I constantly feel like it’s a “hit it in this direction and hope for the best on the other side of the hill”. 

Boy do I hear that! I hate blind shots and water hazards that snake unseen way out into the fairway. I don't mind a course that will punish you for being a little off. There is a course down on the Kenai Peninsula in Alaska that you will loose your ball if you venture a foot into the woods between the fairways. The ground gets covered with wintergreen, and the only way to find your ball is to step on it.

 <-- wintergreen

Just give me a course that is fair. Hard is okay. Super fast slopy greens or bunkers with concrete instead of sand, as long as they are all like that, well, to me, that is fair.  Hide a finger off of a lake that goes all the way across the fairway to the cart path behind two hills that buttress the green in such a way that you cannot see said water on your approach shot and I will think twice about playing there again. 

[Luvnflgolf]

I think it depends on the skill level of the golfer. If you're a beginner, do you really know what a good course is, does it matter? To start it should be beautiful with it's landscaping. A good mix of trees, water, sand, etc. It has to be well maintained. A good mix of risk reward holes. Not too difficult but enough to make you think.  When you watch a PGA tournament on TV and they're shooting 20 under or more, it's too easy. Also, distance doesn't necessarily make it a good course. Make the golfer hit a good shot.

[rjacobs4]

Courses that make me think about my shots.  Challenging but fair.  Well  maintained, especially greens and tees.  Tough that is not US Open length (a pet peeve).  Decent clubhouse where I can get a cold beer and a burger after my round.

[Shifty]

in order of importance to me;

Nice greens

Nice fairways

Beer cart every 3 holes

Nice tee boxes

affordable

10-12 min intervals between tee times

Driving range

[Robert Qi.Golf]

I'm biased in favor of natural. The classic architects of early 1900s that took the land as it was, MacKenzie,  Ross, Tillinghast and others from their Era and those thay influenced. I'm also a fan of links golf, wind and ocean settings.

Having said that my criteria include

Interesting and diverse 

Conditioning 

Challenging but fair

Vistas

Overall: just plain fun

Unfortunately,  the best courses require travel from my home in Tucson.  Bandon Dunes (I work there in summers), Monterrey Penninsula, Pinehurst,  Hilton head, Ireland and Scotland. 

From my experience,  Monterey and Bandon are as good as it gets. Caveat, I haven’t yet played in Melbourne or New Zealand. Next!

 

 

[Big moose]

When I walk into the clubhouse and the counter person who I am paying acts like I am bothering him, that's a turn off right there. The layout has to be interesting not this back and forth stuff, it's like your playing the same hole 5 times. The greens have to be reasonably fast I hate slow greens. The tees and fairways should be cut at a reasonable height I don't like the fairways really tight, most course's I play have bent grass and the ball sits on that really nice. The food they offer at the turn should be something quick, ready made sandwiches are fine with me. There have been times when we got tired of waiting for the group in front of us at the turn so we went ahead and teed off.

[billybogey]

I'm with the Chap from Oakville!! Why Not - I grew up there!!

For some reason I am not a Fan of of Slow Play!!

Do like "Whirlpool" though!!

 

 

[Beakbryce]

On 2/7/2024 at 9:24 AM, vandyland said:

I prefer W I D E R golf courses (think landing zones or fairways at least 50 yds wide) with more of the challenge or demand placed on the approach shot rather than off the tee. I like golf courses that give you OPTIONS off the tee rather than "hit it here or else" or courses that give you an easy out of the tee vs a challenging line of the tee that will give you a reward. I think a variety of hole templates (short 4s, long 4s, doglegs, redans, etc) keeps things interesting. Not a ton of OB or blocked out shots. 

I was wondering were to start because there are so many things that can make ordinary golf courses good. You nailed my initial thoughts. I hate OB. If it is untenable for a ball to go crooked, don't build a hole there. Not to mention the current rules can make it a hazard so play isn't held up by some doofus coming back to your tee to hit again. It's not like OB stakes magically keep a ball from straying of the course.

Augusta National was a much more interesting course in 1990 than it is now. Wide fairways that required a precise drive to set up the approach shot depending on hole location. 

I am wondering if the corollary question "what makes a course bad", needs to be asked as several of the posts have alluded to this answer as well.

 

 

[Beakbryce]

54 minutes ago, Robert Qi.Golf said:

I'm biased in favor of natural. The classic architects of early 1900s that took the land as it was, MacKenzie,  Ross, Tillinghast and others from their Era and those thay influenced. I'm also a fan of links golf, wind and ocean settings.

I am all in on this, with the caveat that sometimes earth has to be moved. Many of the courses here in the greater Phoenix area are fairly flat. I give you TPC Scottsdale. The military course I play took completely flat land, moved a lot of dirt, and built a course where no hole is level. No extra dirt was brought in. It's fabulous. Clearly for me the course to be good needs some elevation changes. One to two club difference is plenty.

[vandyland]

1 hour ago, Beakbryce said:

I am wondering if the corollary question "what makes a course bad", needs to be asked as several of the posts have alluded to this answer as well.

Haha, that is a fun topic as well. There used to be like a "worst hole design" thread on here I think that I participated in a few times. I have probably more thoughts on bad holes vs good holes.