Confession Corner - Admit Your Golf Equipment Biases

[Getoffmylawn]

Man, I have to do better at scanning the forum for new content...I'm waaaay behind on a great thread.  My two cents:

First, I hate nothing...I truly will give everything a chance and if it performs better I'll game it.  

But, I do have some biases, and those biases can be a tiebreaker all things being equal.

NEGATIVE BIAS:  TaylorMade and Callaway.  First, I hate feeling like I'm funding what strike me as the most aggressive marketing campaigns out there.  But more so, the "made-for" shaft phenomenon really bothers me.  I understand that a made-for shaft can still be a good shaft and work for some, but I find it very disingenuous to give a shaft the same name and paint job as an aftermarket shaft...a Ventus without the Velocore in TaylorMades, the Project X HZRDUS in the Epic, etc.  I'm not sure but I'm guessing other OEMs do this, but TaylorMade and Callaway are the most egregious in my opinion.

Oh, and Ping drivers are still loud to me.

POSITIVE BIAS:  Titleist and Mizuno.  As subjective as hell I know, but they always make products that look and feel great to my eyes and ears, and they give the impression to me of companies that are about making golfers better rather than pumping out product.  The 2-year product cycle to me is evidence of that.

And finally, a special positive:  Honma.  One, first testing opportunity I had with MGS, Two, I think they made/make great stuff, but their foray into North America was doomed from the start, in some ways for reasons of their own making.

[chisag]

6 hours ago, Getoffmylawn said:

TaylorMade and Callaway.  First, I hate feeling like I'm funding what strike me as the most aggressive marketing campaigns out there.  But more so, the "made-for" shaft phenomenon really bothers me.  I understand that a made-for shaft can still be a good shaft and work for some, but I find it very disingenuous to give a shaft the same name and paint job as an aftermarket shaft...a Ventus without the Velocore in TaylorMades, the Project X HZRDUS in the Epic, etc.  I'm not sure but I'm guessing other OEMs do this, but TaylorMade and Callaway are the most egregious in my opinion.

 

 

... Fair enough and of course these are just opinions and as Lukes said light hearted ones at that and personal bias, so I'm not arguing with your opinion. That said, most golfers and even forum golfers will fit into a made for more than the aftermarket shaft and OEMs are fitting the masses. Nothing worse for the OEM when someone hits a driver that would work well with a stock made for shaft but a stiffer tipped, lower torque after market shaft produces a bad feel and poor ball flight. They have absolutely no idea it's the shaft and they just think "This driver sucks". It has been my experience with the general public high index and even some mid index players that they have absolutely no idea what their flex is let alone what shaft they are playing.   Ventus means noting to 95% of the real world golfers and of course Velocore doesn't enter in to it at all. 

... I talked with the engineers at Cobra when they wanted to put a Matrix aftermarket shaft in their new driver, but their testing found it didn't work for most. They realized they were close so they had Matrix soften the tip and reduce the torque while keeping the same construction and materials. Worked much better for the masses but some forum members really took them to task for a "made for" in small print. 

[Getoffmylawn]

3 minutes ago, chisag said:

 

 

... Fair enough and of course these are just opinions and as Lukes said light hearted one s at that and personal bias, so I'm not arguing with your opinion. That said, most golfers and even forum golfers will fit into a made for more than the aftermarket shaft and OEMs are fitting the masses. Nothing worse for the OEM when someone hits a driver that would work well with a stock made for shaft but a stiffer tipped, lower torque after market shaft produces a bad feel and poor ball flight. They have absolutely no idea it's the shaft and they just think "This driver sucks". It has been my experience with the general public high index and even some mid index players that they have absolutely no idea what their flex is let alone what shaft they are playing.   Ventus means noting to 95% of the real world golfers and of course Velocore doesn't enter in to it at all. 

... I talked with the engineers at Cobra when they wanted to put a Matrix aftermarket shaft in their new driver, but their testing found it didn't work for most. They realized they were close so they had Matrix soften the tip and reduce the torque while keeping the same construction and materials. Worked much better for the masses but some forum members really took them to task for a "made for" in small print. 

I get it, and like I said I understand that a made-for can still fit a lot of people.  But, why give it the same name and same paint job, unless you are trying to establish a relationship or suggest it's akin to a more expensive product when it's really not?  Just seems disingenuous or an attempt to prey on the uninformed.

[bens197]

This forum has taught a lot of people to be open minded about gear.  Brand agnosticism is really the best approach to setting yourself up for success.

This doesn’t mean I don’t have biases.  

I won’t touch a TaylorMade putter.  That is really the only line I will draw…Setup, feel, performance…they do absolutely nothing for me.

One thing has been a constant for me throughout college and as a club pro, the drivers in my bag have always rotated between Ping & Titleist.  Going back 20 years my bag has been 975D, TiSi, 983K, 905T, G5, 913D3, G400LST, TSI3.  I tried a couple random brands for fun without success..Nike Ignite, Callaway Big Bertha, SIM2…

Clubs are a lot like food…give it a chance and be open minded.

 

[sirchunksalot]

I try to stay brand agnostic, as different equipment can suit my game. With that being said, I do have some equipment that I won't touch with a ten meter cattle prod. 

Ping irons. I tried the G400 at the fitting where I bought my Cobras and the feel and performance just weren't there. Plus, I know it serves a purpose when it comes to adjusting lie, but the cutout at the back of the house looks kinda goofy. Their woods and wedges I would give a fair shot, as they always put out solid performers. 

Callaway balls. After the ball test a couple of years ago I just feel like they are made to a lesser standard. I know they've improved but there's some trust issues there.

Blade putters of any brand. I like looking at a big, bulky mallet as it just oozes confidence and forgiveness to me. Plus, the feel is sublime.

Wilson drivers. Most of them look cheap to me. The new DynaPwr could possibly change that, if they can be found anywhere near me.

Now, I don't want to be all negative here so here's the things I'll gravitate towards.

Mizuno irons. I love my 921 Forged. They're buttery and forgiving. These clubs inspire me to want to become a better ball striker because they're beautiful and I want to look like a player that deserves to play them.

Cobra anything. The drivers perform good, I love the fairway woods, they're innovative with their irons and putters, and the wedges look like they would perform.

I'm just a fanboy.

Odyssey putters. I've had 2 and just feel confident standing over any putt I face.

Evnroll. I love Odyssey, but have just always wanted to give them a try. They get rave reviews in testing and I would love to eventually try one out. 

Titleist. Almost anything. If I'm in the market for a driver, they'll be high on my list. Vokey wedges will be on the top of my list to try when replacing my current Vokey's. The amount of grind and bounce options they offer just excite the inner geek in me. The only thing that doesn't excite me are Scotty's. To me, it's just a milled face and a name.

Other than that, I'm willing to try anything. 

[RickyBobby_PR]

2 hours ago, Getoffmylawn said:

I get it, and like I said I understand that a made-for can still fit a lot of people.  But, why give it the same name and same paint job, unless you are trying to establish a relationship or suggest it's akin to a more expensive product when it's really not?  Just seems disingenuous or an attempt to prey on the uninformed.

In taylormades case the rumor is they bought the name. Also last year and this year they changed the paint scheme. Callaway hasn’t changed it for the blue.

While it is somewhat deceptive it’s also basic marketing. 1) as discussed it’s a shaft that will fit the majority of everyday golfers and 2) let’s them have something that looks like what the pros play which will boost sales. Remember there is a large segment that doesn’t get fit for clubs and buys off the rack based on name, flex and loft of what they already play

[RichL85]

5 hours ago, Getoffmylawn said:

I get it, and like I said I understand that a made-for can still fit a lot of people.  But, why give it the same name and same paint job, unless you are trying to establish a relationship or suggest it's akin to a more expensive product when it's really not?  Just seems disingenuous or an attempt to prey on the uninformed.

Imagine the criticism that tennis companies got for years over paintjobs. Trying to explain to 100+ people a day that the majority of professionals were playing older models that were simply being painted to look like the newest year's model got old. Not to mention all of the various custom features and weighting that may be involved. We are talking everything from a professional using a 15 year old racquet with a custom molded handle because he prefers the shape of another manufacturer's handle, foam injected into certain areas of the frame to alter the flex, lead tape to alter the weight and a modified string pattern. All that while manufacturers are throwing up advertisements and posters telling everyone to buy the "New (insert pro's name here) Racquet". It was quite infuriating personally. Of course the retail model was a more appropriate fit for the vast majority of people than the actual pro's racquet, but it feels wrong in some ways. 

[GolfSpy BOS]

15 hours ago, Golfspy_Lukes said:

I think we need to re-look at what I meant by bias.  I am not referring to what necessarily fits you best.  I am talking about completely non-scientific or performance related reasons to why we like or don't like certain brands.

I don't prefer Sun Mountain bags because I don't like their stand mechanism.  I am biased against OGIO because they are owned by Callaway and just don't want to own any Callaway-affiliated products.  If sun mountain re-did their stand mechanism, I would consider their bags.  There is nothing OGIO could do (aside from breaking off from Callaway) to make me want to by an OGIO bag.

Ohh count me in on any bags that have a mechanism that collapses the front part of the bag and doesn’t have full length dividers, or has dividers that bunch up and get all clogged up. 
 

when I put a club back in my bag I want to hear that this as it hits the bottom. Nothing worse than hitting a bad shot and less than gently putting your club back and not being rewarded with an audible thud at the bottom. 

[CudaKota66]

I'll only play PING irons....'Play Your Best'

I used to be 'all about' Cobra drivers. Was dead-set on buying the F9 when it came out. Hit it like crap - no better than my then-current Cobra driver. The fitter suggested a Callaway Epic Flash w/ EvenFlow shaft...I gained 22 yards  & 7 MPH ball speed  Moral of the story: get fit

Balls: Titleist Pro V1/V1x or TaylorMade TP5/Tour Response....I'll give-away any finds/gifts that aren't those two....um, four

I have never got on the TM club bandwagon....and have never bought an Apple product  

[fixyurdivot]

I went to my True Spec fitting a couple years back with a brand agnostic position.  While the primary reason for the fitting was moving into composite shafts, I figured why not see if another make/model head outperforms the G410's I was fitted for the prior year.  The ball flight data and downselect yielded a toss-up between the G425's and the ZX5's, with Mavrik's and D9F's in the hunt.  

To be brutally honest though, I'm not sure I could have ignored the visual aspects of a couple heads had they been a finalist; T300 and D9 in particular.  Much as it makes sense to let the data dictate the choice, I suspect that's tough to do for most.  If the look of the club is just off-putting, both in the bag and, even more so, at address, it's hard to ignore.

In answer to the OP question, I can honestly say I'm still brand agnostic - with the caveat that ball flight data alone won't be the only criteria in my selection.  

 

[Getoffmylawn]

On 1/20/2023 at 9:53 AM, Golfspy_Lukes said:

I think we need to re-look at what I meant by bias.  I am not referring to what necessarily fits you best.  I am talking about completely non-scientific or performance related reasons to why we like or don't like certain brands.

I don't prefer Sun Mountain bags because I don't like their stand mechanism.  I am biased against OGIO because they are owned by Callaway and just don't want to own any Callaway-affiliated products.  If sun mountain re-did their stand mechanism, I would consider their bags.  There is nothing OGIO could do (aside from breaking off from Callaway) to make me want to by an OGIO bag.

Same here.  When I got my JPX 919 Forged it was very much a toss-up numbers wise with Apex Pro's...I was all too eager to go Mizuno and avoid bagging a Callaway.

That said, I game an Apex Pro hybrid...smaller profile hybrid that's not a hook machine.  If the numbers say it's best, I'll game it.

[Subdiver1]

On 1/20/2023 at 11:04 AM, RickyBobby_PR said:

I’ve had the p790 along with a couple other brands similar style irons and never had an issue holding greens. It really comes down to the person hitting them. Someone who already has low spin is more thank likely have too low spin with the p790 thus holding the green

That is a good point. When I got fitted into them it was because my spin with a set of Mizuno MP-57s with TT S300 shafts had gone through the roof (like 9000 rpm 7-iron) and I was losing like 1-1.5 club in distance. I am now in the P790s with Oban CT115 shaft (the runner up were the forged Apex irons). Prior to that spin issue with the Mizzie's I hit them like I hit the P790s now. Again, shaft and head combinations have gotten so extensive you could probably fit a good player into a flat block of Ti with the right shaft and the could play that.  Good conversation.

Edited January 21 by Subdiver1
Forgot note

[Subdiver1]

Not a Callaway fan at all. Currently playing P790s and when I got fitted for them the forged Apex Pro were runner up in dispersion and distance. If they had won out I would have been hard pressed to put them in my bag, but I was ready to give then a chance as I watched the numbers stack up. I would definitely define that (my) resistance as bias. Other than that Top Flight balls fir sure. I think it was the Gamer(?) that was supposed to be a tour quality ball, and I know Lee Trevino once played TF balls, but I cannot get over how the old TF balls were like hitting rocks (or maybe marbles).  So, I'd say I have a negative bias toward anything Callaway or Top Flight.

[RickyBobby_PR]

1 hour ago, Subdiver1 said:

That is a good point. When I got fitted into them it was because my spin with a set of Mizuno MP-57s with TT S300 shafts had gone through the roof (like 9000 rpm 7-iron) and I was losing like 1-1.5 club in distance. I am now in the P790s with Oban CT115 shaft (the runner up were the forged Apex irons). Prior to that spin issue with the Mizzie's I hit them like I hit the P790s now. Again, shaft and head combinations have gotten so extensive you could probably fit a good player into a flat block of Ti with the right shaft and the could play that.  Good conversation.

for sure. The shaft is going to affect dynamic loft and that’s going to affect launch and spin.

It was crazy in my pxg fitting that Nippon and kbs I just couldn’t get along with them and the px 6.0 was a better fit. What I’ve learned in my recent firings is in higher spinning iron heads I need to be in px 6.0 or dg s300 or s400.

in some of the lower spinning heads it really varies on how the balance of the club is. In 716 cbs kbs $taper worked fine but in p790 a no go.

[Golf Dawg]

On 1/20/2023 at 10:12 AM, TylorJudd said:

Definitely against visors. They could tell me they have the ability to read the green for me but if they look like a visor it just ain't happening. It's like sandals with socks, you can't have both. No hat or hat, pick one or or the other. 

I’m too bald on top for a visor, these days, but I do rock the bucket!

[MWL_9]

I'm willing to hit whatever works/looks best, but I can't get myself to buy anything PXG.  I'd just hear "KABOOM BABY" every time I look in my bag and saw a PXG club 

[Getoffmylawn]

5 minutes ago, MWL_9 said:

I'm willing to hit whatever works/looks best, but I can't get myself to buy anything PXG.  I'd just hear "KABOOM BABY" every time I look in my bag and saw a PXG club 

That's one that I can't really make up my mind about.  There "premium" pricing was off-putting, but then they started pricing product at the other end of the spectrum.  And their veteran pricing program is great too.  MGS testing never really justifies the premium price points for their high-end stuff though.

[GolfSpy BOS]

1 hour ago, MWL_9 said:

I'm willing to hit whatever works/looks best, but I can't get myself to buy anything PXG.  I'd just hear "KABOOM BABY" every time I look in my bag and saw a PXG club 

I actually make my brother yell that out loud every time he actually hits a good drive. (Don't worry.... its rare!)

[chisag]

2 hours ago, Getoffmylawn said:

That's one that I can't really make up my mind about.  There "premium" pricing was off-putting, but then they started pricing product at the other end of the spectrum.  And their veteran pricing program is great too.  MGS testing never really justifies the premium price points for their high-end stuff though.

 

... I hear ya on that, LOUD and clear! I hesitate to call them Marketing Genius's but their commercials certainly got everyones attention. Their insanely high prices kept everyones attention. Then dropping prices to below other OEMs even got some haters attention. I keep peeking at their 0311T Gen4 model since they came out. They look soooooo good at address and hitting them into a net, they felt awesome. Thankfully the Cobra King Tours will occupy my bag this year and save me from actually playing (Gulp!) some PXG T irons. 

[chisag]

On 1/20/2023 at 8:12 AM, TylorJudd said:

Definitely against visors. They could tell me they have the ability to read the green for me but if they look like a visor it just ain't happening. It's like sandals with socks, you can't have both. No hat or hat, pick one or or the other. 

 

... Ahhhhhh youngsters and "fashion". I loved my visor when my hair was thick and it was hot. Nothing like trapping in the heat back when baseball caps didn't have the modern ventilation they do now. Plus ... Fred Couples wore them!