2023 Titleist White Box Testing Thread

[Javs]

24 minutes ago, brogies said:

I did initial testing tonight on a Trackman indoors, comparing the test ball with a 2023 ProV1 RCT. I was not hitting the ball especially well tonight for a few reasons, including I was in a rush and didn't warm up as much as I usually do. Anyway, initial thoughts are that the ball feels a bit softer than the ProV1 off the club head, but not by a lot.

I did notice after only 7-8 56º wedge shots, the cover was already getting minor scuffs. So durability is definitely a concern. The cover does feel softer.

I hit 56º, 7-iron, and driver, both with the ProV1 RCT and the test ball. As mentioned, not a good practice session really. I play a draw but for some reason was fading everything pretty heavily.

Initial results seem like the 7-iron and driver are longer with the ProV1 RCT with lower spin. The test ball seems to spin higher with every club, which is interesting. You can see the full results here.

I'll test more head-to-head with the ProV1 and might mix in a TP5 as well. Most likely this weekend and will report back.

Very interesting review this far. You might be the first that is seeing more spin from this ball. I found the ball to be soft and having a lot less spin. Can’t wait till you test them on the course and see the results there. 

[SpanishHands]

20 hours ago, ZoonORama said:

Done that….

@ZoonORama Can you take a close-up picture of the dimple profile using the cut balls? (simply try to get a close-up of the edge of the ball focusing on the cover, so the lateral shape of the dimples (TEST vs. ProV1) can be seen. My guess is that the dimples of test balls (and AVX) are somehow cylindrical in shape and the dimples in proV1 are more spherical.  

Edited November 9, 2023 by SpanishHands

[brogies]

8 hours ago, Javs said:

Very interesting review this far. You might be the first that is seeing more spin from this ball. I found the ball to be soft and having a lot less spin. Can’t wait till you test them on the course and see the results there. 

Yep. Will be hitting the simulator this weekend and possibly playing this Friday afternoon so can test it on course. I was very curious as well with the more spin results.

[fixyurdivot]

23 hours ago, ZoonORama said:

Done that….

Glad someone beat me too this.  The PV1 looks to have a slightly thicker second layer than the AVX and Test balls...which look nearly the same.  Now we just need someone to count dimples .  

[fixyurdivot]

11 hours ago, funkyjudge said:

Initial Impressions and Data from Launch Monitor Session

You have already seen my unboxing impressions and the dissertation that I did regarding my planned testing methodology. Today, I spent more than 2.5 hours (actually closer to 3 hours) on one of the launch monitors/simulators at Baylinks Golf, which is the golf center where I do a great deal of my clubfitting and analysis work. The LM is an HD Golf model (made in Canada), and as someone who owns two other launch monitors, and who has done fitting and testing work with all of them, plus several other models, I have a great deal of confidence in these monitors, which I have used for close to 6 years, as has the PGA Professional who owns Baylinks Golf.  I collected ten pages of data, and did my tabulations and comparative analysis for another two hours after I got home late this afternoon.  The following is a summary of my findings and impressions based on this launch monitor session.

Partial Shots (25 & 50 yards) with 50* 54* and 58* Wedges:

Most of these shots were taken with my 54-12 and 58-10 Ping Glide 2.0 Wedges, with a small sample of low punched partial wedge shots taken using my 50* Cobra "Snakebite" wedge.  Here's a summary of what the data showed:

1. Total spin is between 900 - 1,550 RPM lower with this Titleist Prototype Ball than with either the 2023 Maxfli Tour X CG or the Titleist Pro V1x Left Dash balls on partial wedge shots from both of these distances.
2. Due to the lower spin, run-out is about 20% greater with the Titleist "Test" ball on 25-yard pitch and chip shots (ball speed average of 31.8 MPH), and a whopping 100% greater on-average when the Titleist White Box Prototype ("TEST") ball is used with any of these wedge lofts for 50-yard pitch or chip shots. This run-out gap widens by an even greater margin vs. the above-referenced balls (Maxfli Tour X CG and Pro V1xLeft Dash), plus vs. the standard Pro V1 ball) when hitting lower-trajectory partial wedge shots.
3. The combination of low spin and significantly greater run-out, which naturally go hand-in-hand, makes control very difficult on all types of short pitch and chip shots

Full Swing Shots with Irons and Pitching Wedge:

Once you get to full-swing shots with the irons and pitching wedge, the gaps in total spin and run-out actually widen. I saw an average spin difference of 1,060 RPM on full shots of 100 - 113 yards with my Paradym pitching wedge, which already produces fairly low spin numbers, and about 1,200 RPM less on full shots with my Paradym 7-iron when using the Titleist Test ball. The average spin rate of less than 3,600 RPM with this Titleist ball on full 7-iron shots of between 146-152 yards makes this Titleist Prototype ball unplayable with the irons, in my opinion .... at least, for me.

Add to the above the fact that I saw a consistent trend of almost 9 yards of additional run-out (8.8 yards actual delta) on full 7-iron shots, and about 4.5 to 5 yards of additional run-out on full PW shots with the Titleist Test ball, making the "unplayability factor" even worse.

Here's Some Positive Data Regarding this Test Ball .... at least for me!:

When it comes to the longer clubs (hybrids, and especially fairway woods and the driver), the lower-spin/greater run-out trend continues, which for me is a very good thing.  Lower spin and greater run-out leads to both longer shots (at least overall .... carry distance wasn't the greatest, but it was never more than 10-12 yards short of what I would expect from my better hits) and straighter shots, as well. With these longer clubs, particularly with the driver, I was seeing very straight shots and lots of run-out; however, the launch monitor/sim is set to "firm fairways", and because I was hitting these longer clubs VERY straight, I saw good overall distance. Nearly every shot that I hit with my driver, 4-wood, Apex Utility Wood and 21* Sub 70 hybrid went virtually dead-straight when hitting this ball, while that was not exactly the case with the balls that I was hitting for comparison purposes. There were no extreme hooks, in fact nothing worse than gentle draws and 2 to 5 yard fades with the Titleist Prototype ball, even when I was sure that I had hit some shots that were going to miss the fairways left, and maybe a couple that I thought could fade off the fairway to the right. I wasn't hitting the ball all that well today, and based on a few shots that I missed by a fairly wide margin with the other balls (almost exclusively hooks) I expected to see some that would at least show themselves to be significant draws when hitting this Titleist Test ball, but that definitely was NOT the case. I did hit a few driver shots and one or two with my 4-wood that carried farther when hitting the Maxfli Tour X CG and Pro V1x Left Dash balls, but they ended-up in the rough, or in the "virtual trees" on a couple of occasions.  We'll see how things go when I get outside and play these balls on a real golf course!

Keep in mind that this data and my impressions regarding this ball's performance were derived entirely from a 2.5+ hour launch monitor session. I still plan to spend an hour or more on the chipping/putting green and in the practice bunker at an area golf course tomorrow (I have to go there for an awards luncheon anyway, so I might as well make use of the facilities). This will be followed by a round of casual golf using these Titleist Prototype balls (and hopefully hitting some side-by-side shots with my favorite Maxfli Tour X CG balls for comparison purposes). I will post my final report and complete the questionnaire following these additional ball-testing activites .... stay tuned for the final report.

Nice review @funkyjudge.  I can see where having a LM is really beneficial in doing product test reviews; balls in particular.  

[JackBurtonsPorkchopExpress]

Got out yesterday morning and walked 9 at my local muni. The plan was to put this up against my gamer (this month it's Srixon z-star XV, usually it's Maxfli Tour X) on each hole. While I am consistently inconsistent, I'm consistent enough to notice some differences. 
1) Off the tee, the test ball definitely had a higher apex than my gamer. No real difference in distance. 

2) around the greens, I didn't feel like the ball held as well as my gamer. Lots of rollout. Also this is where I started to feel the difference in the balls. The test ball is much softer. Going from a more firm ball to this softer test ball was a little tricky. Shots weren't feeling like I was getting solid contact with them, but would ultimately go close to the distance I wanted.

3) Putting was something else. I am finally getting decent at controlling my speed on the green and this ball I felt like I had to clobber to get it to go anywhere. I don't think that's a bad thing btw. What's great is even though I felt like I was making a conscious effort to putt the ball a little bit "harder" is I don't think I blew anything past the hole (BONUS!! I snaked in a 20 footer with the test ball). So, I'd say I like them on the green. I don't have to treat the ball like something delicate, I can relax and hit it a bit more firm.

Unfortunately, one of the test balls is buried in some leaves... I'm playing again this weekend and will collect some more of that sweet, sweet experiential data

[Parshooter36]

My son came over last night to hit some balls, so I had him test the same AVX, Pro V1, and Chrome Soft against the test ball. He's a couple of clubs longer than me, but had very similar results. The test ball was very close to the AVX with a bit more spin. 

One thing that was interesting is we both hit the AVX and test ball higher than the Pro V1 which is not what Titleist says the AVX is supposed to do. Another thing that has been a constant trend is that all 3 Titleist balls consistently out perform my gamer ball.  I will probably be making a change for next season.

[Cfhandyman]

While, I await for the balls to arrive as I live in Canada. Are we all testing the same prototype ball or are the random.  Based on the information from ZoonORama, it appears the test ball in question, is an updated AVX. See attached for reference 

[ZoonORama]

26 minutes ago, Cfhandyman said:

While, I await for the balls to arrive as I live in Canada. Are we all testing the same prototype ball or are the random.  Based on the information from ZoonORama, it appears the test ball in question, is an updated AVX. See attached for reference 

I have some additional testing to do on the material alongside the performance of the ball itself with my current gaming setup. I’ll post that once I get the results from the material tests.

[MH15]

15 hours ago, Ben Joest said:

The test ball did not stack up well against the Bridgestone. It was consistently 20 yards shorter off the tee. On one hole, it went 246 yards and the gamer went 286 yards. On the par 4 2nd hole, which is a 6 iron off the tee due to a risk/reward forced carry. The Bridgestone went 204 yards, the test ball was approx. 30 yards shorter

Very interesting to have gotten similar results as a high handicapper myself and a low one like yourself. My loss was only ~8 yds on avg, but I am sure that gets more consistent and noticeable at a lower handicap such as yours! 20 yards is very, very noticeable. Cool you were able to play both at once!

[NubianRugby]

13 hours ago, NubianRugby said:

Got mine a couple of days ago and it's supposed to be beautiful here in DC tomorrow. I might be able to sneak over to the course tomorrow midday to try and test these out. 

Plan is to hit my regular gamer and then the test ball for comparison, that's how you do this, right?

Many thanks to @GolfSpy_APH for the gentle reminder to post here instead of the DM. Super excited for my first shot at being a MGS tester!!!

FML, now I have to go into the office and will not be able to play today. 

[golfinnut]

I'll be taking these for a spin tomorrow.  Excited for that first tee shot with a new ball!  

[Cfhandyman]

Hallelujah, the Titleist AVX test balls have arrived. How do I know they’re AVX. Because that’s what Titleist indicated on the shipping and customs label. Now based on previous AVX balls, we are most likely dealing with an updated ball that is low in compression (77), low in spin, lower in trajectory with a softer core. This may explain some of the results seen by other testers. I will share my testing criteria and initial thoughts later. See below

[Javs]

2 minutes ago, Cfhandyman said:

Hallelujah, the Titleist AVX test balls have arrived. How do I know they’re AVX. Because that’s what Titleist indicated on the shipping and customs label. Now based on previous AVX balls, we are most likely dealing with an updated ball that is low in compression (77), low in spin, lower in trajectory with a softer core. This may explain some of the results seen by other testers. I will share my testing criteria and initial thoughts later. See below

Nice catch on the shipping label! 

[Tom the Golf Nut]

31 minutes ago, Cfhandyman said:

Hallelujah, the Titleist AVX test balls have arrived. How do I know they’re AVX. Because that’s what Titleist indicated on the shipping and customs label. Now based on previous AVX balls, we are most likely dealing with an updated ball that is low in compression (77), low in spin, lower in trajectory with a softer core. This may explain some of the results seen by other testers. I will share my testing criteria and initial thoughts later. See below

This just shows how good everyone testing is. We nailed down the model fairly quickly. 

[Subdiver1]

Funny thing about AVX, I like them the way they are.  My swing speed holds around 105.  For me, the AVX seems to follow the MGS testing results being close to higher compression balls off the tee and long off the fairway. I like the handling around the greens and love the feel off the putter. I'm not sure how keen I'll be on an even lower overall compression. I look forward to reading about the testing.

[ZMendle10]

On 11/7/2023 at 7:20 PM, azstu324 said:

 

What kind of tape is that on the balls. I intend to do a hefty amount of Trackman testing myself. Typically I use RCT balls but that won't help too much for the TEST ball.

[azstu324]

12 minutes ago, ZMendle10 said:

What kind of tape is that on the balls. I intend to do a hefty amount of Trackman testing myself. Typically I use RCT balls but that won't help too much for the TEST ball.

It's just aluminum duct tape. You can pick up a roll at any Home Depot or even Walmart. Disclaimer.. if hitting into a net, the net can pull the stickers off as it's slightly abrasive. I've taken extra measures and covered that area of the ball with super glue and draped a bed sheet over my hitting net and that seems to do the trick. It does work though and the monitor picks up the measured #'s vs calculated. 

[azstu324]

Thanks to @Cfhandyman, looks like we've pinned down a baseline for what we're testing. 

That said, if anybody's familiar with the AVX, is it me or does this ball feel a little firmer? Not bad firm but firmer? 

 

[ZMendle10]

44 minutes ago, azstu324 said:

It's just aluminum duct tape. You can pick up a roll at any Home Depot or even Walmart. Disclaimer.. if hitting into a net, the net can pull the stickers off as it's slightly abrasive. I've taken extra measures and covered that area of the ball with super glue and draped a bed sheet over my hitting net and that seems to do the trick. It does work though and the monitor picks up the measured #'s vs calculated. 

Love the resourcefulness. Does it need to be in any orientation to work best?

[azstu324]

8 minutes ago, ZMendle10 said:

Love the resourcefulness. Does it need to be in any orientation to work best?

My wife calls me StuGyver.. I kinda have a thing for DIY solutions.. sometimes DIY problems too .

To answer your question, not that I know. I do know that it needs to face the target before impact. 

[ZMendle10]

5 minutes ago, azstu324 said:

My wife calls me StuGyver.. I kinda have a thing for DIY solutions.. sometimes DIY problems too .

To answer your question, not that I know. I do know that it needs to face the target before impact. 

Thanks for the info. Now I can finally get some true numbers on my actual gamer ball once testing is complete. 

[Javs]

1 hour ago, azstu324 said:

Thanks to @Cfhandyman, looks like we've pinned down a baseline for what we're testing. 

That said, if anybody's familiar with the AVX, is it me or does this ball feel a little firmer? Not bad firm but firmer? 

 

Interesting I found it a softer version. 

[Randall Robbins]

I also found it to feel softer, especially as soon as I putted with it.  That being said, I did not get the feeling that I had to bang putts like others,but that is likely just me.  I'll have more info after tomorrow, but my evaluation will only be based on actual play, not any tech - too old school, I guess, but I leave it all to the eye and feel test, which to me is all that matters.

[TJ Hall]

I also found it softer, putting with it the ball had a very muted click compared to a variety of other balls

[funkyjudge]

Short Game Review and Observations:

As I posted yesterday in my initial impressions from my launch monitor session, I got out on the chipping and putting green to test these Titleist "White Box" Prototype balls in a variety of around-the-green conditions [very short chips from adjacent to the green, longer chips (up to 10 yards) from the rough, high pitch shots and plenty of putts]. I had also planned to hit a variety of shots from the practice bunker, but that bunker was under repair, so that was impossible to do. Here is what I observed with these Titleist Test balls vs. both the 2023 Maxfli Tour X CG and the regular 2023 Maxfli Tour CG:

• Feel - The Titleist Test ball feels quite soft; much softer than the Maxfli Tour X and also a bit softer than the Maxfli Tour ball. The Tour X from Maxfli is a very firm ball at more than 100 compression, and it has a rather firm feel on all shots, but the 2023 Maxfli Tour is only 85 compression, and this Titleist ball still feels noticeably softer than that Maxfli model, so I'm guessing that this Titleist ball is a sub-80 compression ball (?)
• Responsiveness - It seemed that it took a more forceful strike on short chip shots with the wedges and with the putter to get the same distance with the Titleist ball as I got from either of the Maxfli ball models, especially with my favorite Tour X model. This is not necessarily a bad thing, especially on downhill putts and chips to tight pin positions or on chips and pitches with some downward slope toward the pin; however, you need to know what to expect, and when I first started hitting shots (particularly short chips and putts) with the Titleist ball, I was leaving everything short.
• Performance - Once I got used to the softer feel, nothing about the Titleist ball was "bad", and I actually made a few reasonably long putts (15-25 feet) with it. I also hit some chips pretty close to a few of the holes that were in tough positions (I tried as many difficult chips as I could), and hit the flagstick one time with the Titleist ball, although I didn't hole the chip. Again, nothing to complain about with the Titleist ball, once I got used to the feel, but as soon as I dialed-in my stroke with those balls, I started blowing the putts well past the holes with the Maxfli balls, particularly the Tour X.
• Overall Observations - I'm not a fan of "soft" or low-compression golf balls (one in the same, I guess), but when I got used to these Titleist "White Box" Test balls, they performed all right off the wedges and putter .... especially the putter. I was expecting to see some excessive run-out on chip and pitch shots, after what I experienced yesterday on 25 and 50 yard partial wedge shots when testing on the launch monitor, but this didn't happen outdoors under real-world golf course conditions, and this practice green was certainly not what I would call "slow" (in fact, it was pretty fast).

Would I play this ball? - Beyond the testing period, probably not, but we'll have to see what happens when I get out on the golf course in the final stage of testing. 

I thought that I might get out for 9 holes today with two guys from my golf team who were at the course (we were there to be honored for winning our 3rd NJ Senior Team Championship in the last 5 years, and 5th in 8 years).  However, it started raining just past Noon, and their tee time wasn't until 1:30, so I packed it in and went home.  Weather does not look at all good for tomorrow or Saturday (cold and rainy, with high temperatures only in the low to mid 40s), so it could be a few days before I conduct the on-course phase of this ball test process, and I want that to consist of at least a full 18 holes.

[funkyjudge]

7 hours ago, Cfhandyman said:

Hallelujah, the Titleist AVX test balls have arrived. How do I know they’re AVX. Because that’s what Titleist indicated on the shipping and customs label. Now based on previous AVX balls, we are most likely dealing with an updated ball that is low in compression (77), low in spin, lower in trajectory with a softer core. This may explain some of the results seen by other testers. I will share my testing criteria and initial thoughts later. See below

Well, there ya' go!  My guess that the ball has a sub-80 compression seems to be validated.

[fixyurdivot]

I took a mystery test ball out for a spin this morning.  We played a 4-man Las Vegas scramble.  I played it for the first nine holes and then switched to an AVX.  Now, while 9 holes of play isn't enough data to reach a verdict, my initial impressions are mixed.  Comparing numbers from the back nine, using the AVX, it was shorter in average total distance from the tee, fw's, and long irons.  My numbers resulted in ~7 yards shorter off the tee and ~4 yards into the green.  

The ball didn't really sound much different but seemed to be a bit softer.  I also noticed that it seemed to have a slightly higher peak height - more like what I see with a PV1.  No way of knowing spin rate, but guessing it's a bit higher. The lower spin, more penetrating flight of the AVX is what drew me to these recently.  

On the green, putting was fine as were wedge shots inside 60 yards.  

I have a round on Saturday and will try a Test ball against a Maxfli Tour...more to come.

[JeremyD]

My plan on the balls. 1. Putt around Thistle Dhu on Sunday. 2. I have a scramble on Saturday. I want to use my Rapsodo and see how some drives or full go. Hopefully I hold onto one ball. I will also use the other 4 balls in the picture to compare. I do agree they appear to look like the AVX, however the simple pattern and the existing AVX I have seems to have some rather large dimples the Test balls do not. 

[CFreddie]

1 hour ago, funkyjudge said:

Well, there ya' go!  My guess that the ball has a sub-80 compression seems to be validated.

Brilliant! Well I guess I can say I’ve tried an AVX ball now…