Grooved ball & Lie Angle

[PlaidJacket]

This past weekend I had the opportunity to visit my fitter and club maker down in Kerrville, Texas. The primary purpose of my visit was to check and adjust if necessary the lie angle on each of my irons. Which we did.

We didn't use a lie-board however. What my guy uses is a grooved ball. It's pretty simple. He'd place an impact sticker on the face of my club and then I'd take a shot using the grooved ball. It would record the position of the strike on the face along with a vertical line indicating the lie angle of each strike. The balls we used were regular tour quality balls where he had used a Dremel tool to cut a thin groove into the ball. Before each shot we'd use a clean/new impact sticker and vertically aligned the groove on the ball relative to the face. Surprisingly most of my irons were still properly set to the correct lie angle except a couple which had to be slightly bent back into position. During this time the lofts on each club were checked and adjusted if necessary.

 

My clubmaker told me this past summer he had been invited to a Tour event/tournament to work in the fitting van with Cleveland Golf. During this time he was out on the range at one point with Brad Faxon where he learned about using a grooved ball. We also had some discussion about why he is not using a lie board any longer for various reasons and moved to the grooved ball instead. More accurate. Makes sense to me and it's something anyone can do at home.

[MattF]

You can also go the Tom Wishon route and draw a line with a sharpie on the ball, masking tape on the club face and align the ball vertically...accomplishes the same thing.

[MmmmmmBuddy]

As long as the groove/line is perfectly vertical and parallel to the intended target line, there is no reason not to like this method.  

[null]

My pro does the same thing with a marker

[BIG STU]

You can also go the Tom Wishon route and draw a line with a sharpie on the ball, masking tape on the club face and align the ball vertically...accomplishes the same thing.

I do the same thing and I actually learned it from Tom Wishon---- IMHO one of the smartest engineering club designers in golf period

[PlaidJacket]

My fitter is a Wishon guy. In fact they are close friends and worked together many years ago.

I understand from talking to my fitter that Wishon has sold to Diamond Golf International in the UK. Tom is stepping back from sales and will focus on design going forward.

[PMookie]

You can also go the Tom Wishon route and draw a line with a sharpie on the ball, masking tape on the club face and align the ball vertically...accomplishes the same thing.

So, I assume, if the line on the tape shows tilted back toward the heel the club is "toe-up", and "toe-down" if the line tilts toward the toe?

How does one calculate the degree adjustments to make if no "flat" or "upright" club heads are available?

 

 

 

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[PaulJKelly]

Experience.

 

Irons: Callaway XR 4-Pw, Aw. Right hand. 1 degree upright. 3/4" over length. Project X 5.5 steel. Tour Velvet +1/32" oversized grips.

 

Driver: Callaway 2017 Fusion. Stiff 10.5. 45.5" length.

[PlaidJacket]

My fitter only did a visual alignment of the grooved ball against a target/reference point. Actually I thought the same thing about making sure it's straight up and down before hitting a shot. In my case we knew what the lie spec should be so the indication in the impact was good. We must have had the groove aligned vertically because all of my iron shots produced a good vertical impact except for a couple of irons. We would repeat the impact 3 times with each club using a clean sticker each time. A few times with certain irons the vertical line was tilted toward the toe slightly after repeated shots. Then if an iron needed adjustment he'd bend it back to our original lie spec.

 

I see the point of trying to eye-ball it aligning the groove vertically. I thought the same thing. To me I think it might be better to use some sort of laser to make sure the groove was at true vertical.

[PlaidJacket]

THE DREADED DOUBLE POST-----

 

My fitter only did a visual alignment of the grooved ball against a target/reference point. Actually I thought the same thing about making sure it's straight up and down before hitting a shot. In my case we knew what the lie spec should be so the indication in the impact was good. We must have had the groove aligned vertically because all of my iron shots produced a good vertical impact except for a couple of irons. We would repeat the impact 3 times with each club using a clean sticker each time. A few times with certain irons the vertical line was tilted toward the toe slightly after repeated shots. Then if an iron needed adjustment he'd bend it back to our original lie spec.

 

I see the point of trying to eye-ball it aligning the groove vertically. I thought the same thing. To me I think it might be better to use some sort of laser to make sure the groove was at true vertical.

[Mr_Theoo]

So, I assume, if the line on the tape shows tilted back toward the heel the club is "toe-up", and "toe-down" if the line tilts toward the toe?

How does one calculate the degree adjustments to make if no "flat" or "upright" club heads are available?

 

 

 

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When I had this done during my last iron fitting he used the hand of a clock to get the degree of how many degrees up or down I should be

[PMookie]

When I had this done during my last iron fitting he used the hand of a clock to get the degree of how many degrees up or down I should be

Awesome! Thanks!

 

 

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[MattF]

So, I assume, if the line on the tape shows tilted back toward the heel the club is "toe-up", and "toe-down" if the line tilts toward the toe?

How does one calculate the degree adjustments to make if no "flat" or "upright" club heads are available?

 

Theoo answered, but...

 

Yes to your first question.

 

Don't know to the second one. I would assume (I shouldn't but I will) that you may have to tweak the club a time or two to get it right, if you don't luck out and get it right the first time.

[BIG STU]

So, I assume, if the line on the tape shows tilted back toward the heel the club is "toe-up", and "toe-down" if the line tilts toward the toe?

How does one calculate the degree adjustments to make if no "flat" or "upright" club heads are available?

 

 

 

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With a guy like me it is experience. I also do the lie board at the same time. I do the lie board thing a little different than most. I have them hit off my mat and I tape the bottom of the club with masking tape too. Like I said it comes down to experience in the long run

[BIG STU]

THE DREADED DOUBLE POST-----

 

My fitter only did a visual alignment of the grooved ball against a target/reference point. Actually I thought the same thing about making sure it's straight up and down before hitting a shot. In my case we knew what the lie spec should be so the indication in the impact was good. We must have had the groove aligned vertically because all of my iron shots produced a good vertical impact except for a couple of irons. We would repeat the impact 3 times with each club using a clean sticker each time. A few times with certain irons the vertical line was tilted toward the toe slightly after repeated shots. Then if an iron needed adjustment he'd bend it back to our original lie spec.

 

I see the point of trying to eye-ball it aligning the groove vertically. I thought the same thing. To me I think it might be better to use some sort of laser to make sure the groove was at true vertical.

HA HA I will give you a senior moment pass on that--- Seems like the older I get the more Senior Moments I get too            

[BIG STU]

When I had this done during my last iron fitting he used the hand of a clock to get the degree of how many degrees up or down I should be

I also use a club and a protractor and I also have several clubs bent up to certain degrees. The clock hand method is also a good way even though I personally do not use it. All of my marked test clubs are marked to the exact degree they are not marked 1 upright or 1 flat. That is because manufacturers standard specs are different and I go by exact degree.

[PMookie]

I also use a club and a protractor and I also have several clubs bent up to certain degrees. The clock hand method is also a good way even though I personally do not use it. All of my marked test clubs are marked to the exact degree they are not marked 1 upright or 1 flat. That is because manufacturers standard specs are different and I go by exact degree.

At Miles of Golf back home in Michigan they got my lie angle from video/pics of my club at impact. Measured the angle and, bingo, I was "standard" lie for that specific club. Neat to know there are so many ways to figure it all out!

 

 

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