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Club Champion vs Golftec: My Experience


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3 hours ago, tchat07 said:

1.png.69b7cd10f10d76a74f6b13b83cc816fd.png2.png.4af66c50fc56f2a4d6f72288a219bbf1.png3.png.b09e48aec3a202622dedc6adf9d5e3df.png4.png.9f968c82925a5c8d7b5f6c5112f6d166.png5.png.01a2d42cf5746a08d73e735f6c4cea28.png

 

 

 

 

Nice writeup!  Not surprising that the P790 was longer; the loft is a little stronger.  I would have gone with the MP20 HMB also.  

I suppose that every Golftec and CC location has similar approaches, but I would have to believe that each fitter might be a little different based on their experience.  I haven't been to either one.  Last fall I had a fitting at TrueSpec and hit a ton of 6i heads.  That is also my longest (and worst) iron in my bag.  Of all the heads I hit the MP20 HMB felt the best and were by far the most consistent, but they were shorter because the loft is weaker than most brands.  I was not in the market for irons, and all of the irons I tried were not statistically better than my gamers.  However, the MP20 HMB is at the top of my list when decide to pull the trigger.

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We don’t stop playing the game because we get old; we get old because we stop playing the game.”

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2nd swing is an excellent choice for a fitting.  Had a fitting for my driver, 3 wood, and hybrids earlier this year and I have been very happy with the results.  And the price was right, basically free since the fee is applied against the purchase.  Appreciate that they are only in limited markets. My son had a driver fitting at Club Champion and it was a great experience but ended up being very expensive since he got an exotic shaft.

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Nice writeup!  Not surprising that the P790 was longer; the loft is a little stronger.  I would have gone with the MP20 HMB also.  
I suppose that every Golftec and CC location has similar approaches, but I would have to believe that each fitter might be a little different based on their experience.  I haven't been to either one.  Last fall I had a fitting at TrueSpec and hit a ton of 6i heads.  That is also my longest (and worst) iron in my bag.  Of all the heads I hit the MP20 HMB felt the best and were by far the most consistent, but they were shorter because the loft is weaker than most brands.  I was not in the market for irons, and all of the irons I tried were not statistically better than my gamers.  However, the MP20 HMB is at the top of my list when decide to pull the trigger.
Yeah I was pretty sure the irons that were going further were from jacked up lofts. I was alright with hitting a shorter if that mean more control.

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2nd swing is an excellent choice for a fitting.  Had a fitting for my driver, 3 wood, and hybrids earlier this year and I have been very happy with the results.  And the price was right, basically free since the fee is applied against the purchase.  Appreciate that they are only in limited markets. My son had a driver fitting at Club Champion and it was a great experience but ended up being very expensive since he got an exotic shaft.
Yeah there limited fitting facilities is why I did not want to include them as another comparison. They really do use the same methods and the fact you can knock off a bit of the price makes it seem like the best option.

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I went a similar route last summer after the Cobra Connect Challenge 3 was over.  I never got along with the King F9 irons and wanted to get something a litle more tailored for my game.  Both of my experiences sound pretty similar to yours.

I ended up buying Mizuno 919 Forged irons through my local pro shop after both fittings were complete.  The 919's came in first place at Golftec and a very close 2nd (to the Ping i500's in retro lofts) at Club Champion.  Shaft choice of KBS Tour was also in the top 2 shafts at each place and was my Mizuno #1 recommendation using their shaft optimizer at my local course.

Was going through all those different testings a little overkill?  Most likely.  Was it extremely fun?  Definitely.  Plus now I have complete confidence that the irons I bought were the right ones for me based on all the different data points and fitters I talked to.

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Driver: :cobra-small: F9 10.5°, Fujikura Ventus Blue 6X
Fairway Wood:  :cobra-small: F9, Fujikura ATMOS TS Black 7X
3 Hybrid: :cobra-small:F9, N.S. Pro Modus3 G.O.S.T. Tour S
4 Hybrid: :cobra-small:F9, Fujikura ATMOS 7 Stiff
5-PW: :mizuno-small: JPX 919 Forged, KBS Tour Stiff
Wedges: :cobra-small: KING Black 50°, 54°, 58°, True Temper Dynamic Gold Black S200
Putter: :EVNROLL: ER5B

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Enjoyed reading about your experiences especially the approaches and what they fit you into.  Hope the new clubs work out for you. 

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Driver:  :ping-small: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven
Fairway: :titelist-small: TS3 15* set  to 16.5* w/Project X Hzardous Smoke
Hybrids:  :titelist-small: 816H1 19* set at 18* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
                :titelist-small: 915H  21*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
               :titelist-small: 915H 24*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
Irons:      :honma:TR20V 6-11 w/Vizard TR20-85 Graphite
Wedge:  :cleveland-small: 588 54-14, 58-12
Putter:  :odyssey-small: Ten S      Backups:  :bobby-grace-1: 6330,   :EVNROLL: ER2.2,  

 

Member:  MGS Hitsquad since 2017697979773_DSCN2368(Custom).JPG.a1a25f5e430d9eebae93c5d652cbd4b9.JPG

 

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I went a similar route last summer after the Cobra Connect Challenge 3 was over.  I never got along with the King F9 irons and wanted to get something a litle more tailored for my game.  Both of my experiences sound pretty similar to yours.
I ended up buying Mizuno 919 Forged irons through my local pro shop after both fittings were complete.  The 919's came in first place at Golftec and a very close 2nd (to the Ping i500's in retro lofts) at Club Champion.  Shaft choice of KBS Tour was also in the top 2 shafts at each place and was my Mizuno #1 recommendation using their shaft optimizer at my local course.
Was going through all those different testings a little overkill?  Most likely.  Was it extremely fun?  Definitely.  Plus now I have complete confidence that the irons I bought were the right ones for me based on all the different data points and fitters I talked to.
Completely agree the amount of supporting data makes it feel like that much more of a proper decision. It is funny that you mention the i500. At both facilities the i500 actually dropped in 3rd, great clubs! How do you like the 919s I tried them out but they just didnt have the same feeling for me.

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9 minutes ago, tchat07 said:

Completely agree the amount of supporting data makes it feel like that much more of a proper decision. It is funny that you mention the i500. At both facilities the i500 actually dropped in 3rd, great clubs! How do you like the 919s I tried them out but they just didnt have the same feeling for me.

Only played a handful of rounds with the 919s last fall but so far I love them.  Absolutely zero regrets with the purchase.

The Cobras were great clubs but they were just too large for my personal preference.

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Driver: :cobra-small: F9 10.5°, Fujikura Ventus Blue 6X
Fairway Wood:  :cobra-small: F9, Fujikura ATMOS TS Black 7X
3 Hybrid: :cobra-small:F9, N.S. Pro Modus3 G.O.S.T. Tour S
4 Hybrid: :cobra-small:F9, Fujikura ATMOS 7 Stiff
5-PW: :mizuno-small: JPX 919 Forged, KBS Tour Stiff
Wedges: :cobra-small: KING Black 50°, 54°, 58°, True Temper Dynamic Gold Black S200
Putter: :EVNROLL: ER5B

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I also enjoyed your write up, thanks for taking the time. I just had a driver fitting at Club Champion, and it was exactly as you describe, so they obviously have a company playbook. In his opening spiel he said getting the right shaft was 80% of the benefit. I also wished I’d seen the data for everything I hit including the throw outs, and I also can’t imagine surviving a whole bag fitting - I was tired after the driver fitting. He recommended a Mavrik with an aftermarket shaft,  came to $900+! I bought the shaft, grip and adapter - to put on my Rogue head (“80% of the benefit” after all). The shaft was pured and swing weight dialed in. Unfortunately I got the shaft just as my regular course shut down for Coronavirus, so I can’t hit it yet. Dying to try it out, to see if it was money well spent. I may break down and find an open course somewhere else if my course closure continues.

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  • Callaway Rogue 10.5° 9.5°D & 3W
  • Mizuno JPX900 Forged 4-GW, S18 56.10, S18 60.06
  • Evnroll ER5B (replaced ER2)
  • and 14th club - Mizuno CLK 3H 19° OR MP-20 HMB 3i 19°
  • Snell MTB-X (replaced Black)
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I also enjoyed your write up, thanks for taking the time. I just had a driver fitting at Club Champion, and it was exactly as you describe, so they obviously have a company playbook. In his opening spiel he said getting the right shaft was 80% of the benefit. I also wished I’d seen the data for everything I hit including the throw outs, and I also can’t imagine surviving a whole bag fitting - I was tired after the driver fitting. He recommended a Mavrik with an aftermarket shaft,  came to $900+! I bought the shaft, grip and adapter - to put on my Rogue head (“80% of the benefit” after all). The shaft was pured and swing weight dialed in. Unfortunately I got the shaft just as my regular course shut down for Coronavirus, so I can’t hit it yet. Dying to try it out, to see if it was money well spent. I may break down and find an open course somewhere else if my course closure continues.
That'll be very interesting to see what type of improvements you see. Hopefully you have the opportunity to get out there soon. What did they end up fitting you in to?

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I played competitive golf growing up, gave up the game for about 6-7 years, and had always played off-the-rack clubs. I picked them back up again last year and knew it was time for a fitting and a complete bag upgrade. I went through a big research period of how to get the most out of a fitting, who does the best fittings, what to look for. I'm an engineer, so I'm very analytical by nature. I ended up going through 3 different fittings.

I flew into Denver on a business trip so made sure to set up a PGA Tour Superstore fitting van experience ($49.99). They also offer a free version. This was an amazing experience and the fitter had an amazing knowledge. I tried to push through a whole bag fitting, because I was only in town for a day. I fit my irons, Apex Pros, and went on to drivers. I hit TaylorMade, Titleist, and Callaway. I never felt pressured in any way, the fitter was always making changes and commenting on things he was observing. I decided I was too fatigued and my data wasn't accurate, but I left knowing what I didn't like.

I went to a small mom and pop shop in Portland, OR next. I live out here and wanted to support the small guys. They had the exact set-up that the Superstore had, but they were a new shop and their fitter didn't know how to use all of the tech. It was not a good experience and he didn't make me pay, although it would've been free had I made the purchase with them anyways. I did not want to come back here for fitting even though they were the shop I wanted to support.

My next fitting was at a public course here in Portland that is known for their fitting, lessons, and retail; it's a great facility. All of their fittings are done on the range, which I was very hesitant to do. Especially in the early Spring with temperatures relatively low. As an engineer, I just didn't want to trust a Trackman to "normalize" the data to fit the ball I play, the average temperature of a Summer day, etc. To my surprise, this was an amazing fitting with one of the most knowledgeable golf guys I've ever interacted with. He had relocated from the east coast, leaving his personal fitting and rep business and was now doing more of what he loved instead of pushing a single brand and relying on sales. He honed my driving into a predictable and optimized ball flight, it was unbelievable. He swapped in some premium shafts and then swapped me back into stock shafts. The $300 premium shaft gave me a marginal increase in performance and it was almost matched with a stock shaft. I have never been happier and more confident with a driver in my hand, my new Titleist TS4. This fitting was FREE.

I want all of the big shops selling $150 fittings to fail so hard. I urge anyone reading this to do some research and go try some fitters out, don't take their word as the gospel. Two out of my three fitters I would call up in a heart beat to help me re-fit or make other changes. And in another year I'd go check out the third again. Find someone trustworthy, whose business model isn't to suck an extra $500 out of you. Golftec and Club Champion have the business models that just make my stomach turn. There is so much better out there and that's why I'm here at MGS.

Here's to those fitters out there that care about actually improving your game.

 

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:titelist-small: TS4, 9.5, Project X HZRDUS Smoke Yellow 60 6.5TX
:cleveland-small: Launcher 3W, 15, Fujikara Gold X-Stiff
:callaway-small: Apex Pro 19 4-W, Dynamic Gold X100
:vokey-small: SM6 56
:vokey-small: SM7 50, 52, 60
:scotty-small: Circa 62 No. 2
:bridgestone-small: Tour B X

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On 3/27/2020 at 7:10 PM, tchat07 said:

5.png.01a2d42cf5746a08d73e735f6c4cea28.png

 

 

 

 

Thanks for sharing your experience. With regards to your question of why certain clubs felt awful one day and worked well the next I think there were numerous contributing factors. I definately think having different shafts in the heads can make a big difference on feel and perception. We don't setup and swing the same every day (but do have tendencies), and that also could have been a big factor. The swing weight of the head and shaft combo as well as the weight of those specific test heads could have been different. Finally, like you suspected what you suspected about them being different clubs from the set 8i vs 7i vs 6i could have been a factor. 

You didn't mention it, but did they fit you for lie angles at all locations? 

How did the place you bought from fit you (did you go in somewhere and get fit, or was it a by paper fitting based on your previous fittings and stats) ? 

Edited by Scientific Golfer
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Current set makeup:

Taylormade M5 driver, 3w, &5w with Evenflow shafts

Taylormade GAPR 4h &5h

Taylormade P790 with Nippon 950 shafts
Callaway MD3 52*,PM 56*, and PM 60*
Taylormade Spider putter
 

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I had a friend do the whole bag fitting at Club Champion and he swears by it. I've watched some of their videos and it's something I would love to do for sure. Thanks for the write-up on the two, it was good to see a comparison.

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Driver: :755178188_TourEdge: EXS 220 9.5° Project X HZRDUS Smoke Yellow 60 6.0
3 Wood: :cobra-small: SpeedZone 14.5° Project X HZRDUS Smoke Yellow 70 6.0
3 Hybrid: :mizuno-small: 2017 CLK 19° Fujikura Speeder Evolution HB Stiff
4 Hybrid: :mizuno-small: 2020 CLK 22° Mitsubishi Tensei Blue Stiff
Irons: :mizuno-small: JPX 921 Forged 5-9, JPX 921 Tour PW Project X LZ 6.0 Blackout Edition
Wedges: Edison Forged 49°, 53°, 57°
Putter:  L.A.B. Directed Force 2.1 34"
Ball: :Snell: MTB-X

Currently Testing: :skycaddie: LX5 Watch

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Between the two places I would go with CC everytime. I’ve done a free swing analysis with golftec and compared to what I was working with my pro on who got me down into low double digit cap they were on another planet. I had the chance to watch one of their instructors give lessons at a facility that has since shut down in the dc area and he taught the samething to the 3 people I got to watch.

As someone earlier mentioned the fitter is as much of the process as the location. In my experience the metrics both places used are important. Getting good smash factor usually takes care of the rest but what happens on the mishits is just as important in the launch characteristics especially for us amateurs who miss more than we would like

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Driver: Titleist 917D3 9.5 with Graphite Design MAD Pro 65g S

Wood: Titleist 917F2 with UST Mamiya Helium 5F4

Hybrid: Titleist 816H1 21 with Atmos Blue 85 S

Irons: Titleist 718 AP3 4i, 718 CB 5-6, MB 7-9 with KBS $ Taper 125

Wedges: Vokey SM7 46/50/54/60 with DG s200

Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1

Ball: Titleist Prov1

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  • 2 weeks later...

I went for Club Champion Driver and Iron fitting.  Came back with a driver fitting of $900 bucks! it was an M6 Taylor Made with a fubuki black 65-S.  I ended up putting one together off Ebay... didnt work at all.  Also they wanted to get me to change my iron shafts or get new irons.  I ended up not doing that either.  Just way too expensive.  All fancy shafts.  I mean I like fancy shafts but I cant drop that kind of dough....

 

I got a taylor made Sim Max-D with a evenflow 65 6.5 shaft.  Quite a combo!

 

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I have been fitted for woods and irons. I did not do it the same day. In Kansas city there is a guy Golf MD and when I went in for woods it was amazing. I was play the RBZ 1 and loved it and the R1. he did not care about the heads. We went through shaft after shaft to dial in what worked for me and my clubs. Ordered shafts and he replace and regripped them with my original grips. It was $150 but got a discount on the shafts and iron fitting. 

My biggest take away was the OTR Stiff  shafts in my X hot2's were actually barely regular stiffness. I did purchase the irons from him and still today smoke those Apex 16's.

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Great write up @tchat07 , thanks for sharing! crazy how different it can be. 

I've done lessons and iron fitting at GolfTec and a putter fitting at CC with good results on both. The GolfTec fitting occurred after a batch of lesson and got me into my previous clubs, Mizuno JPX 800 PRO with KBS Tour X-stiff Soft stepped 1x, which i ended up purchasing used and building myself to my needed specs. 

The SAM-LAB putter fitting at CC recommended a mallet, but since I play a 385g wide body blade, the fitter just made a loft/lie corrections to it, as well as my another putter i had without trying to talk me into a new putter, and I can roll it sooo much better now. 

I think the CC fitting is very fitter specific as when i talked to my putter fitter, he mentioned that CC can do anything available on any OEM website,  and if someone needs to try to fit a budget, they can work with that. I won a free Driver fitting at CC through instagram which i'll make use of later this year, and they will let me pay just the $50 difference to upgrade it to a long game fitting, which will include fitting for a FW and hybrid or driving iron. Going in ,  I plan to be honest and tell them my budget, and I personally I have no issue saying that I can only afford to look at the shafts that are the stock offerings or even looking at previous models and possibly upgrading the shaft to meet my budget ( hell, even Rickie went back to his F9 driver recently and they'e only $250 new from Cobra right now). I know that it will limit me somewhat, but i'm going for what gets me the most consistency and tightest dispersion, and I'm willing to give up 10 yards to get it. 

 

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What's in my  :cleveland-small: bag:

Driver :  :cobra-small: F9 10.5, Accra TZ5 Proto 65 M5 

Fairway  :cobra-small: F9 15.5° Aldila Tour Blue 75X 

Hybrid:  :cobra-small: King F7 18° KBS Tour PROTO Hybrid 95 S+

Irons:   :srixon-small: z585 4i - 6i,  z785 7i-PW, TT DG S300 HS 1x

Wedges:  :cleveland-small: CBX 45.8, 50.11, 55.11, 60.10  TT DG S300

Putter:  post-53756-150768041262.jpg Honey Badger 34" 

Ball:  :srixon-small: Q-Star Tour

 

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 3/31/2020 at 11:40 PM, remste17 said:

I played competitive golf growing up, gave up the game for about 6-7 years, and had always played off-the-rack clubs. I picked them back up again last year and knew it was time for a fitting and a complete bag upgrade. I went through a big research period of how to get the most out of a fitting, who does the best fittings, what to look for. I'm an engineer, so I'm very analytical by nature. I ended up going through 3 different fittings.

I flew into Denver on a business trip so made sure to set up a PGA Tour Superstore fitting van experience ($49.99). They also offer a free version. This was an amazing experience and the fitter had an amazing knowledge. I tried to push through a whole bag fitting, because I was only in town for a day. I fit my irons, Apex Pros, and went on to drivers. I hit TaylorMade, Titleist, and Callaway. I never felt pressured in any way, the fitter was always making changes and commenting on things he was observing. I decided I was too fatigued and my data wasn't accurate, but I left knowing what I didn't like.

I went to a small mom and pop shop in Portland, OR next. I live out here and wanted to support the small guys. They had the exact set-up that the Superstore had, but they were a new shop and their fitter didn't know how to use all of the tech. It was not a good experience and he didn't make me pay, although it would've been free had I made the purchase with them anyways. I did not want to come back here for fitting even though they were the shop I wanted to support.

My next fitting was at a public course here in Portland that is known for their fitting, lessons, and retail; it's a great facility. All of their fittings are done on the range, which I was very hesitant to do. Especially in the early Spring with temperatures relatively low. As an engineer, I just didn't want to trust a Trackman to "normalize" the data to fit the ball I play, the average temperature of a Summer day, etc. To my surprise, this was an amazing fitting with one of the most knowledgeable golf guys I've ever interacted with. He had relocated from the east coast, leaving his personal fitting and rep business and was now doing more of what he loved instead of pushing a single brand and relying on sales. He honed my driving into a predictable and optimized ball flight, it was unbelievable. He swapped in some premium shafts and then swapped me back into stock shafts. The $300 premium shaft gave me a marginal increase in performance and it was almost matched with a stock shaft. I have never been happier and more confident with a driver in my hand, my new Titleist TS4. This fitting was FREE.

I want all of the big shops selling $150 fittings to fail so hard. I urge anyone reading this to do some research and go try some fitters out, don't take their word as the gospel. Two out of my three fitters I would call up in a heart beat to help me re-fit or make other changes. And in another year I'd go check out the third again. Find someone trustworthy, whose business model isn't to suck an extra $500 out of you. Golftec and Club Champion have the business models that just make my stomach turn. There is so much better out there and that's why I'm here at MGS.

Here's to those fitters out there that care about actually improving your game.

 

I’d say this is spot on.  The problem for me is finding someone local, knowledgeable and independent who can do a thorough fitting. 

I’ve had good fittings at both CC and GOLFTEC.  The  number of choices of shafts CC had available made them stand out to me.  While the more expensive shafts do perform marginally better on Trackman, I’m not sure they are worth the extra $300-$500.  You can get a similar stock or even upgraded shafts offered by the  manufacturer for much less. But I ended up paying the extra $$ to make sure I had well fit clubs because I haven’t found someone local I trust who can do it as well as CC. 

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Thanks for sharing your experience. With regards to your question of why certain clubs felt awful one day and worked well the next I think there were numerous contributing factors. I definately think having different shafts in the heads can make a big difference on feel and perception. We don't setup and swing the same every day (but do have tendencies), and that also could have been a big factor. The swing weight of the head and shaft combo as well as the weight of those specific test heads could have been different. Finally, like you suspected what you suspected about them being different clubs from the set 8i vs 7i vs 6i could have been a factor. 
You didn't mention it, but did they fit you for lie angles at all locations? 
How did the place you bought from fit you (did you go in somewhere and get fit, or was it a by paper fitting based on your previous fittings and stats) ? 
They all did lie angle fittings with the lie angle board but the one that stuck with me was the final one. During the lie angle fitting portion he had me hitting 3 degrees upright but stated he would never fit someone into 3 degrees. I actually was hitting those relatively well. I plan to wait and see how I hit these on course then might go back for a lie adjustment.
As for how 2nd Swing fit me. The fitting was very similar to both before being they had me on trackman and was using the data. The only difference for them was I already knew the head I wanted so we spent the whole time finding the right shaft. A lot was based off what I was feeling but also came down to consistency of dispersion.

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