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Is it time to upgrade...again?


DJ Mico
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I, an ole high indexer, recently upgraded my 3 hybrid from an ole Adams regular flex to a Sim Max Stiff Flex. The difference is amazing leaving a huge gap between my 5 iron & new 3 Hybrid. I have settled into my driver and 3 wood which are both old and working well for me, but, I'm thinking about getting fitted for a new driver & 3 wood because of the performance increase in the 3 hybrid. During the fitting I'll compare what I am currently using to at least three new items with regular & stiff flexes. I don't buy into the notion that ole golfers with slow swing speeds need regular or senior flex. Prove me wrong. 

Irons: Callaway Rogue 5-PW, AW Men's Right Hand, Standard, Shaft: True Temper XP 95 Steel Regular Flex

Driver: Callaway Big Bertha Alpha 815, Shaft: Fujikura Speeder 565, Regular Flex 

Dexterity: right-handed

Live in Fresno, Ca 93270

Current handicap 33.5 and slowly going down... 

Ball: Titleist Velocity Orange & TaylorMade Distance 

Putters: Odyssey O-Works Red #7S Putter; Odyssey Whitehot XG #9; Nike BC 101 Heel-Toe Putter

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5 minutes ago, cnosil said:

I don’t think there is a perfect way.  For example during most wanted testing we hit 3-5 shots before switching clubs and go through the clubs roughly 4 times.  It is hard hitting in a simulator and seeing your trace line on the screen.   I seem to do better when that disappears and I have to rely on memory of previous shots to try and not adapt my swing as much.  

I agree it’s very tough, do you think sometimes it has more to do with feel than the actual data? Also, what are your thoughts on equipment, say driver, changes vs slight adjustments to your swing setup? I play a 9.5 degree driver and it I play my on course swing with a slight shoulder lean, the flight is great, but as soon as I want to go after it, it spins way too much. I find that if I eliminate the shoulder lean and bring the ball further back in my stance (lowering the dynamic loft), I get a much better flight with my higher swing speed with the same equipment 

Obsessed with the game

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19 minutes ago, SkilledByDesign said:

I get that. I often wonder if a better test would be an on course trackman session where you hit driver on the course, switching between which one you hit first vs second. I love the data as much as anyone, but I know my swing is much more controlled on the course than on the range or on the simulator. 
I believe Rick shiels on YouTube does a good job of testing both concepts 

In a fitting one should be using their on course swing and not the driving range all out no consequences swing.

People get on a monitor and want to see how much distance or speed they can get, where in the course they are trying to keep a ball in play or have some intended target 

 

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Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4

Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white

Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid

Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120

Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60

Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1

Ball: Titleist Prov1

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36 minutes ago, SkilledByDesign said:

I agree it’s very tough, do you think sometimes it has more to do with feel than the actual data? Also, what are your thoughts on equipment, say driver, changes vs slight adjustments to your swing setup? I play a 9.5 degree driver and it I play my on course swing with a slight shoulder lean, the flight is great, but as soon as I want to go after it, it spins way too much. I find that if I eliminate the shoulder lean and bring the ball further back in my stance (lowering the dynamic loft), I get a much better flight with my higher swing speed with the same equipment 

I am not a feel player and am data/performance driven.  Data is about optimizing the perfect swing and helping assess how the particular club will work.   If you have to alter your setup to get optimum results then you probably don’t have the right setup.  Find the club that works for your setup and normal swing p.  If  driver is in your hands  you should always be trying to send it.  

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Driver:  :ping-small: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven
Fairway: :titelist-small: TS3 15* set  to 16.5* w/Project X Hzardous Smoke
Hybrids:  :titelist-small: 816H1 19* set at 18* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
                :titelist-small: 915H  21*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
               :titelist-small: 915H 24*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
Irons:      :honma:TR20V 6-11 w/Vizard TR20-85 Graphite
Wedge:  :callaway-small: 54-10S   :cleveland-small: 588  58-12
Putter:  :seemore-small: mFGP2

Backups:  :bobby-grace-1: 6330, :taylormade-small:TM-180, :odyssey-small: Milled Collection RSX 2, Bellum Winmore 787

 

Member:  MGS Hitsquad since 2017697979773_DSCN2368(Custom).JPG.a1a25f5e430d9eebae93c5d652cbd4b9.JPG

 

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19 minutes ago, cnosil said:

If  driver is in your hands  you should always be trying to send it.  

I love that mentality. I guess my question is then, should you have a fairway finding swing and a “full send” swing? Or go with maybe 3 wood off the tee if it’s not a full send hole?

Obsessed with the game

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7 minutes ago, SkilledByDesign said:

I love that mentality. I guess my question is then, should you have a fairway finding swing and a “full send” swing? Or go with maybe 3 wood off the tee if it’s not a full send hole?

Now we are getting into course management.   There is a thread on here about DECADE which talks about driver strategy.  You can find some good videos on Scott Fawcetts YouTube channel.  Short summary unless you have swing problems always hit driver if there is 65 yards between penalty areas at you driver distance. Play one shape with your driver. Don’t back down clubs to hit the fairway; people don’t hit more fairways. If there is less than 65 yards then you can consider backing off a club.  If you search Scott’s Twitter feed there is a decision chart for tee shots club selection.  DECADE is becoming discussed more and is the strategy that many professionals use to navigate the course. A couple  of the bigger names using the system would be Bryson, Morikawa, Zalatoris, and recently Stewart Cink 
 

this is also the strategy that my golf coach has communicated tow me and how he tells his D1 Women’s golf team to play.   

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Driver:  :ping-small: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven
Fairway: :titelist-small: TS3 15* set  to 16.5* w/Project X Hzardous Smoke
Hybrids:  :titelist-small: 816H1 19* set at 18* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
                :titelist-small: 915H  21*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
               :titelist-small: 915H 24*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
Irons:      :honma:TR20V 6-11 w/Vizard TR20-85 Graphite
Wedge:  :callaway-small: 54-10S   :cleveland-small: 588  58-12
Putter:  :seemore-small: mFGP2

Backups:  :bobby-grace-1: 6330, :taylormade-small:TM-180, :odyssey-small: Milled Collection RSX 2, Bellum Winmore 787

 

Member:  MGS Hitsquad since 2017697979773_DSCN2368(Custom).JPG.a1a25f5e430d9eebae93c5d652cbd4b9.JPG

 

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1 hour ago, cnosil said:

I don’t think there is a perfect way.  For example during most wanted testing we hit 3-5 shots before switching clubs and go through the clubs roughly 4 times.  It is hard hitting in a simulator and seeing your trace line on the screen.   I seem to do better when that disappears and I have to rely on memory of previous shots to try and not adapt my swing as much.  

I could have noted in my last post, the two swing charts I posted were from different sessions. The R15 was from my October fitting, and the Mavrik results were from my iron fitting where I was just playing around on Trackman after we finished the irons. In theory, aside from weather differences, I was the same amount of "warmed up" by the time I got to the driver each day.

  • Like 1

Driver: :callaway-small: Mavrik Sub Zero 9º

3 Wood:callaway-small: Mavrik 15°

Hybrid: :callaway-small:Mavrik Pro 3 Hybrid 20°

Irons

4-6:titelist-small: T200

7-PW:Miura: CB-301

Wedges

:mizuno-small: T20 50/7 Satin (bent to 48/5); T20 54/14 Blue Ion

:ping-small: Glide 3.0 Eye2 60/8

Putter:odyssey-small: Toulon Design Stroke Lab Las Vegas with H7 neck

Ball: :titelist-small: ProV1

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5 hours ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

If you add loft it will shut the face and vice versa for taking loft away.
 

The draw setting is going to shut the face more and the n will keep It wherever it’s set based on the loft choice.

While tinkering can be fun it can lead down a rabbit hole. You were fit to a certain setting based on your swing, deviations in performance from a fitting are typically because of the user not the club. Fixing the swing is going to yield better results in the long run.

If you want to see the affects of the changes on the cog. Go to the driving range and get a bucket. Take 5 swings with your current setting and note the flight and results. Then try different settings and compare it to your baseline 5 swings and note the differences

Thanks for the info. I know tinkering can lead to a rabbit hole, but I was just curious since the way I had tuned my old driver seemed to really work for me. I will experiment the next time I go to the range. I'm sure my swing does have some things that need to be fixed, but I did feel very consistent with my old one in with particular settings and think maybe slight tweaks to make the new one like that would help get the consistency back.

Driver: :callaway-small: Mavrik Sub Zero 9º

3 Wood:callaway-small: Mavrik 15°

Hybrid: :callaway-small:Mavrik Pro 3 Hybrid 20°

Irons

4-6:titelist-small: T200

7-PW:Miura: CB-301

Wedges

:mizuno-small: T20 50/7 Satin (bent to 48/5); T20 54/14 Blue Ion

:ping-small: Glide 3.0 Eye2 60/8

Putter:odyssey-small: Toulon Design Stroke Lab Las Vegas with H7 neck

Ball: :titelist-small: ProV1

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5 hours ago, PMookie said:

When you said you bought the Sub Zero, and had inconsistencies off the tee, I thought the spin may be too low coming off that head. Turns out it isn’t. So, that leaves me with this: I’m like you... When I get it in my head that a change is needed, I go change the club. In your case, I would DEFINITELY change the driver....... BUT, after another lesson. If you hadn’t been through a fitting I’d have recommended that, but you have. I think a new driver could wait until seeing if the swing issue is really the culprit, and be a reward for fixing said issue if so.

Anyway, since I’ve been you, and I know you’re looking for that post that says, “Yes! Buy a new driver! NOW,” I want to say sorry that I couldn’t be the one that said that....

Thanks! That is my thinking, and I actually wanted someone to say this "go get a lesson then do another fitting then maybe get a new driver." I was thinking of just buying a new one but needed some discussion to talk me off the ledge and go get a lesson LOL. 

  • Like 1

Driver: :callaway-small: Mavrik Sub Zero 9º

3 Wood:callaway-small: Mavrik 15°

Hybrid: :callaway-small:Mavrik Pro 3 Hybrid 20°

Irons

4-6:titelist-small: T200

7-PW:Miura: CB-301

Wedges

:mizuno-small: T20 50/7 Satin (bent to 48/5); T20 54/14 Blue Ion

:ping-small: Glide 3.0 Eye2 60/8

Putter:odyssey-small: Toulon Design Stroke Lab Las Vegas with H7 neck

Ball: :titelist-small: ProV1

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16 minutes ago, DJ Mico said:

I could have noted in my last post, the two swing charts I posted were from different sessions. The R15 was from my October fitting, and the Mavrik results were from my iron fitting where I was just playing around on Trackman after we finished the irons. In theory, aside from weather differences, I was the same amount of "warmed up" by the time I got to the driver each day.

Since I don’t believe that trackman will show the strike location and your smash factor was higher, I would think that there is a possibility that the swings with the new driver were struck more out of the center of the face compared to the results from last year. This should cause a higher smash factor and add distance. My thought would be that your swing has improved since, resulting in better strikes

Just checked the original post to make sure, but I see that your swing speed with the maverick was actually slower but had a higher smash factor. Like I said before, it makes me think better strike location 👍🏻

Edited by SkilledByDesign
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Obsessed with the game

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28 minutes ago, cnosil said:

Now we are getting into course management.   There is a thread on here about DECADE which talks about driver strategy.  You can find some good videos on Scott Fawcetts YouTube channel.  Short summary unless you have swing problems always hit driver if there is 65 yards between penalty areas at you driver distance. Play one shape with your driver. Don’t back down clubs to hit the fairway; people don’t hit more fairways. If there is less than 65 yards then you can consider backing off a club.  If you search Scott’s Twitter feed there is a decision chart for tee shots club selection.  DECADE is becoming discussed more and is the strategy that many professionals use to navigate the course. A couple  of the bigger names using the system would be Bryson, Morikawa, Zalatoris, and recently Stewart Cink 
 

this is also the strategy that my golf coach has communicated tow me and how he tells his D1 Women’s golf team to play.   

I tend to fall into this line of thinking: whatever club I am picking, I am trying to hit it as far as I can. I have tried at the range or in lessons to back off my woods and end up causing more problems with my swing and get more erratic by not trying to swing hard because I am altering my timing. I have tried to manage the course better throughout a round, and getting more consistent with my driver off the tee would be a great place to start. I'm going to book a lesson tonight so I can feel more confident and consistent with my driver

Driver: :callaway-small: Mavrik Sub Zero 9º

3 Wood:callaway-small: Mavrik 15°

Hybrid: :callaway-small:Mavrik Pro 3 Hybrid 20°

Irons

4-6:titelist-small: T200

7-PW:Miura: CB-301

Wedges

:mizuno-small: T20 50/7 Satin (bent to 48/5); T20 54/14 Blue Ion

:ping-small: Glide 3.0 Eye2 60/8

Putter:odyssey-small: Toulon Design Stroke Lab Las Vegas with H7 neck

Ball: :titelist-small: ProV1

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16 minutes ago, DJ Mico said:

I tend to fall into this line of thinking: whatever club I am picking, I am trying to hit it as far as I can. I have tried at the range or in lessons to back off my woods and end up causing more problems with my swing and get more erratic by not trying to swing hard because I am altering my timing. I have tried to manage the course better throughout a round, and getting more consistent with my driver off the tee would be a great place to start. I'm going to book a lesson tonight so I can feel more confident and consistent with my driver

I wouldn’t recommend “backing off” any club.  But you have to figure out how to manage distance gaps coming into greens.  With what is probably a 15 yard gap between clubs you need to be able to hit in between shots.  Same tempo but either choked down or shorter swing length, but same tempo.  Finesse and distance wedges is another topic 

  • Like 1

Driver:  :ping-small: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven
Fairway: :titelist-small: TS3 15* set  to 16.5* w/Project X Hzardous Smoke
Hybrids:  :titelist-small: 816H1 19* set at 18* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
                :titelist-small: 915H  21*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
               :titelist-small: 915H 24*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
Irons:      :honma:TR20V 6-11 w/Vizard TR20-85 Graphite
Wedge:  :callaway-small: 54-10S   :cleveland-small: 588  58-12
Putter:  :seemore-small: mFGP2

Backups:  :bobby-grace-1: 6330, :taylormade-small:TM-180, :odyssey-small: Milled Collection RSX 2, Bellum Winmore 787

 

Member:  MGS Hitsquad since 2017697979773_DSCN2368(Custom).JPG.a1a25f5e430d9eebae93c5d652cbd4b9.JPG

 

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1 hour ago, DJ Mico said:

Thanks for the info. I know tinkering can lead to a rabbit hole, but I was just curious since the way I had tuned my old driver seemed to really work for me. I will experiment the next time I go to the range. I'm sure my swing does have some things that need to be fixed, but I did feel very consistent with my old one in with particular settings and think maybe slight tweaks to make the new one like that would help get the consistency back.

Interesting you say the old driver really worked for you. When I look at your numbers comparing the two the consistency numbers on most categories improved with the mavrik. Comparing the different categories your strike consistency is better. You have a lower launch and better spin.  You have more distance in carry and total yards. 
 

  • Like 1

Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4

Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white

Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid

Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120

Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60

Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1

Ball: Titleist Prov1

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3 hours ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

Interesting you say the old driver really worked for you. When I look at your numbers comparing the two the consistency numbers on most categories improved with the mavrik. Comparing the different categories your strike consistency is better. You have a lower launch and better spin.  You have more distance in carry and total yards. 
 

Thanks! I guess when I say it "worked," I am saying it was more "predictable." With the sliding weights and all the tinkering I could do with it, I was able to get a fairly consistent draw out of it that would go about 250 total. I totally agree that the Mavrik is a significant upgrade over the old R15. The only difference with my Mavrik and why I made this post is that the Mavrik SZ is not a very forgiving club, so where a mishit with my old driver would put me short and a bit off line, the Mavrik has me shorter and farther off line.

I think it is decided to get a lesson and keep practicing to dial in my swing, and if I'm still having issues, then it will be upgrade time.

  • Like 1

Driver: :callaway-small: Mavrik Sub Zero 9º

3 Wood:callaway-small: Mavrik 15°

Hybrid: :callaway-small:Mavrik Pro 3 Hybrid 20°

Irons

4-6:titelist-small: T200

7-PW:Miura: CB-301

Wedges

:mizuno-small: T20 50/7 Satin (bent to 48/5); T20 54/14 Blue Ion

:ping-small: Glide 3.0 Eye2 60/8

Putter:odyssey-small: Toulon Design Stroke Lab Las Vegas with H7 neck

Ball: :titelist-small: ProV1

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On 4/30/2021 at 11:45 AM, jneff11 said:

I, an ole high indexer, recently upgraded my 3 hybrid from an ole Adams regular flex to a Sim Max Stiff Flex. The difference is amazing leaving a huge gap between my 5 iron & new 3 Hybrid. I have settled into my driver and 3 wood which are both old and working well for me, but, I'm thinking about getting fitted for a new driver & 3 wood because of the performance increase in the 3 hybrid. During the fitting I'll compare what I am currently using to at least three new items with regular & stiff flexes. I don't buy into the notion that ole golfers with slow swing speeds need regular or senior flex. Prove me wrong. 

Ha... I can swing a driver 115 mph... I can also hit a senior flex whippy driver (I can’t do both at the same time)... the tensei white x stiff was still way too much club for me.

Different flexes will change how you swing and how you present the club at impact... there is also no standard for what regular or seniors or stiff means...

Honestly, the numbers and letters on clubs are guidelines that mostly help but sometimes get in the way... find what works for you and don’t worry about what you are “supposed” To be playing... 

  • Like 3

Mavrik 9 degree - Ventus Black 7X

Mavrik 13.5 Degree - Hazardus Smoke

Sub70 19 degree - Proforce V2 8F5

Sub70 4u - Proforce V2 8F5

Sub70 5i - DG S400

Adams CMB 6-GW - Project X 6.0

Sub70 54 (286) and 58 (JB Low Bounce) - S300

SeeMore Trimetal Mallet (Custom fit and built... Kudos to Cody)

And as always, Kudos to Craigers.

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