More fairways = more greens/better scores?

[RickyBobby_PR]

We see frequently people wanting to improve their fairway hits percentage. Nothing wrong with that as usually being in the fairway gives a good lie and usually a good stance on most courses which in theory makes it easier to hit a good shot.

The question is when you hit more fairways does it increase your GIR that day? Do you score better with more fairways hit on that day?

Me personally I don’t worry that much about fairways hit, hitting more greens for me is more important. I can miss a fairway and be in the first cut and still have a chance to get on the green on most of the courses I play. I’ve had some low rounds with only a few fairways hit but hit 9+ greens or barely missed the green and still get par.

 

[Shapotomous]

I prefer to hit fairways for a couple reasons...even if I am 10 - 15 yards shorter than going after it and being in the rough.....

I can control distance and spin more consistently from the fairway so even with hitting a green from the rough I am generally closer if I am hitting from the fairway.  

The rough on the course I have been playing in the league is very inconsistent from bare dirt with intermittent clumps of grass to thick, lush US Open height.  Some real challenging lies pop up.

I am not hitting wedges into a lot of greens but mid irons so it is more challenging to bomb & gouge from the rough with a 7i than a PW.  I think that may be a difference between the Pro's and amateurs when it comes to bomb & gouge statistics and chasing distance with little regard to dispersion.  They chase distance and are hitting a wedge into the green from the rough.  Amateurs playing a 7i or longer, even getting to a hybrid, will probably do better from the short grass even if it costs them 15 yards for the accuracy.  

You're from MD....have you played Bulle Rock and dealt with the length of that course and the thickness of their rough and the firmness of their greens?    I still remember two summers ago playing a alternate shot couples tournament there and trying to power longer iron shots from the rough.  It was a 'challenging' day to say the least but we avoided divorce court!   

[russtopherb]

I prefer to not be in the woods or hitting 3 from the tee. I don't care if I'm in the fairway or the rough, as long as I have a clear second shot I don't care where it's from. 

The joys of being a 17 hdcp... 

[RickyBobby_PR]

45 minutes ago, Shapotomous said:

I prefer to hit fairways for a couple reasons...even if I am 10 - 15 yards shorter than going after it and being in the rough.....

I can control distance and spin more consistently from the fairway so even with hitting a green from the rough I am generally closer if I am hitting from the fairway.  

The rough on the course I have been playing in the league is very inconsistent from bare dirt with intermittent clumps of grass to thick, lush US Open height.  Some real challenging lies pop up.

I am not hitting wedges into a lot of greens but mid irons so it is more challenging to bomb & gouge from the rough with a 7i than a PW.  I think that may be a difference between the Pro's and amateurs when it comes to bomb & gouge statistics and chasing distance with little regard to dispersion.  They chase distance and are hitting a wedge into the green from the rough.  Amateurs playing a 7i or longer, even getting to a hybrid, will probably do better from the short grass even if it costs them 15 yards for the accuracy.  

You're from MD....have you played Bulle Rock and dealt with the length of that course and the thickness of their rough and the firmness of their greens?    I still remember two summers ago playing a alternate shot couples tournament there and trying to power longer iron shots from the rough.  It was a 'challenging' day to say the least but we avoided divorce court!   

I’ve played Bulle Rock numerous times and several times with members on this forum. I play multiple courses with thick rough like Whiskey Creek and Maryland National. Those courses along with several others on the I-70/270 area also have fast greens. 
 

You say you prefer to give up 1+ club of distance off the tee to be in the fairway and never have a short iron into greens, have you considered moving up a tee box to give you the ability to hit shorter clubs into greens.

Also does the approach you use lead to lower scores when you hit more fairways than days you don’t?

 

[RickyBobby_PR]

1 minute ago, russtopherb said:

I prefer to not be in the woods or hitting 3 from the tee. I don't care if I'm in the fairway or the rough, as long as I have a clear second shot I don't care where it's from. 

The joys of being a 17 hdcp... 

but the question is do you hit more greens or score better when your fairways hit is high compared to low?

[Shankster]

I think that public courses should do away with rough.  Do what Bluejack National did… make it a smidge longer than the fairway… 

Speeds up play, less lost balls… more fun, less wear and tear on people… 

 

Seems like a win, win.

 

To answer your question though.  I don’t care where I am, as long as it is not OB, penalty or blocked out.  Just hammer the ball out of the rough, it’s one of my many talents, because I am in it a lot.

[russtopherb]

4 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

but the question is do you hit more greens or score better when your fairways hit is high compared to low?

A quick glance at stats shows that my GIR goes up with FIR.

[RickyBobby_PR]

9 minutes ago, Shankster said:

I think that public courses should do away with rough.  Do what Bluejack National did… make it a smidge longer than the fairway… 

Speeds up play, less lost balls… more fun, less wear and tear on people… 

 

Seems like a win, win.

 

To answer your question though.  I don’t care where I am, as long as it is not OB, penalty or blocked out.  Just hammer the ball out of the rough, it’s one of my many talents, because I am in it a lot.

I don’t think rough effects pace of play as much  as green speed does but even that ime isn’t the pace of play issue. Several of the course I mentioned have either and some have both and pace of play isn’t an issue. The courses make the pace known before you go to the first tee and the marshalls do a good job of enforcement. 
 

The knowledge or lack of golf etiquette is a bigger issue for pace of play 

[DaveP043]

I can't back this up with statistics, but I'd bet that I do hit more greens and score better when I hit more fairways.  I'm not talking about hitting shorter clubs off the tee in order to hit more fairways, I'm talking about the days when I'm driving it straighter at my normal distance.  Being in the rough definitely leads to wider dispersion on the subsequent shots.  If the rough is light, the effect might be small, if its thick and deep, its a greater impact.

[Shankster]

4 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

I don’t think rough effects pace of play as much  as green speed does but even that ime isn’t the pace of play issue. Several of the course I mentioned have either and some have both and pace of play isn’t an issue. The courses make the pace known before you go to the first tee and the marshalls do a good job of enforcement. 
 

The knowledge or lack of golf etiquette is a bigger issue for pace of play 

I play on Velcro.  So I see your point there.  Etiquette and just general awareness of what the heck is going on around you would help out too.

[RickyBobby_PR]

1 minute ago, Shankster said:

I play on Velcro.  So I see your point there.  Etiquette and just general awareness of what the heck is going on around you would help out too.

Yeah that’s the biggest issue I see on ice of play. I do agree though that the rough and green speed have an impact as I’ve witnessed people 3-4 putt several holes back to back at Worthington Manor which is used for US open qualifiers and other high level AM events and the greens are the only defense they have to low scores. Get on the wrong level and it’s a lifting nightmare. Have that happen for a couple groups and there goes pace of play. 
 

I stopped playing one course except 1 or times a year now because the course stopped caring about pace and there’s a couple money groups that go out late morning that just take forever. So what used to be a guaranteed 4:20 round is 5+

The issue with rough that I’ve seen is when it’s overgrown and people spend more than the old 5 mins and now 3 min rule for looking
 

 

[Shapotomous]

45 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

I’ve played Bulle Rock numerous times and several times with members on this forum. I play multiple courses with thick rough like Whiskey Creek and Maryland National. Those courses along with several others on the I-70/270 area also have fast greens. 
 

You say you prefer to give up 1+ club of distance off the tee to be in the fairway and never have a short iron into greens, have you considered moving up a tee box to give you the ability to hit shorter clubs into greens.

Also does the approach you use lead to lower scores when you hit more fairways than days you don’t?

 

I did not say "never have a short iron into greens", I said I am not hitting wedges into a lot of greens.  I don't think I need to move up quite yet.  I am still leading the league in birdies playing the same tees as the young guys & while a lot of oldsters moved up a tee or even two.  I generally get 5 or 6 of the 9 points in the matches.  I do shake my head when I am hitting a 4 hybrid or 5i on the one par 3 while the young'ns are hitting 7i but my record on that hole isn't any worse than any other hole.  I enjoy playing the varied shots, I get a lot more enjoyment playing a course that requires hitting all the clubs in the bag during a round than driver - wedge all day. 

My general feeling is I score better from the fairway because I tend to remember the blow up holes and those weren't from the fairway.   I'd have to do some kind of statistical analysis on scores and fairways hit from the grint data i've entered for league play this year to see what the numbers say.  Last night's small sample size, I missed two fairways and doubled both those holes.  One, I hit a straight shot instead of a fade while cutting a corner on a dogleg and lost the ball in high fescue on the left, the other one a drive faded into a fairway bunker and rolled up under the lip...a 3 putt completed the double after missing the green.  Both holes I could have hit a hybrid playing safer but chose not to.  The other holes I hit 5 fairways with either a driver or hybrid and was -1 on those holes and disappointed by missing 2 other 6' birdie putts....eta...one approach was with a 8i and the other was with the 4h.

Maybe a different course with different playing conditions would merit a bomb and gouge approach for me.

[cnosil]

2 hours ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

The question is when you hit more fairways does it increase your GIR that day? Do you score better with more fairways hit on that day?

More fairways doesn’t seem to equate to more GIR or better scoring in my game. I am relatively consistent in FW and GIR totals.   Obviously I would rather be in the fairway but as long as I have a reasonable shot at hitting the green I am happy with the tee shot.  My scoring is more driven by my short game shots.

 

[RickyBobby_PR]

14 minutes ago, cnosil said:

More fairways doesn’t seem to equate to more GIR or better scoring in my game. I am relatively consistent in FW and GIR totals.   Obviously I would rather be in the fairway but as long as I have a reasonable shot at hitting the green I am happy with the tee shot.  My scoring is more driven by my short game shots.

 

This has been how my recent rounds are. If my 100 and in game is working I can keep it around 80. If it’s slightly off especially in the 30-50 then I start bringing in mid 80s unlike I can drop a long putt or two

[THEZIPR23]

Absolutely I hit more greens from the fairway than the rough (59% total GIR, 53% GIR from other than fairway), I would venture a guess that this is the case for every golfer. However a drive in the rough doesn't mean I hit a bad one and a drive in the fairway doesn't mean I hit a good one. People need to understand that the rough for most every golf course that we play has very little effect on overall score. Yes, I have played in tournaments that were setup very difficult and fairways were definitely a premium, but most of those were due to the greens and not the rough. 

[BMart519]

1 hour ago, Shankster said:

I think that public courses should do away with rough.  Do what Bluejack National did… make it a smidge longer than the fairway… 

Speeds up play, less lost balls… more fun, less wear and tear on people… 

 

Seems like a win, win.

 

To answer your question though.  I don’t care where I am, as long as it is not OB, penalty or blocked out.  Just hammer the ball out of the rough, it’s one of my many talents, because I am in it a lot.

I agree with the shorter rough concept. A recent Fore the People podcast just discussed this course. Sounds like pace of play is 5-6 hours because there is a bar and smokehouse on the Par 3 12th hole where most groups spend 30-40 minutes eating, drinking, and heckling other groups as they tee off. 

[funkyjudge]

Unless it is deep U.S. Open-like rough, I don’t mind hitting my second shot from the rough, but it does limit the type of shot I am going to be able to hit and the club I select.  If I am 150 yards from the middle of the green and in the fairway, I’m likely to be hitting a 7-iron approach shot (unless I am hitting into the wind and/or uphill) and my chances of being somewhere on the green, probably within 25-35 feet of the hole, are quite good.  However, if I am that same 150 yards out and in the rough, I may need to hit a 6-iron (if the ball is sitting down in moderate-length rough), or maybe an 8-iron if I have a “flyer” lie, and my probability of hitting and staying on the green probably decreases to around 50-60% at best.  If the rough is really deep and thick, I may need to “take my medicine” and hit a wedge of some sort, leaving me a short wedge into the green for my next shot.

Edited August 11, 2021 by funkyjudge

[funkyjudge]

4 hours ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

I’ve played Bulle Rock numerous times and several times with members on this forum. I play multiple courses with thick rough like Whiskey Creek and Maryland National. Those courses along with several others on the I-70/270 area also have fast greens. 
 

You say you prefer to give up 1+ club of distance off the tee to be in the fairway and never have a short iron into greens, have you considered moving up a tee box to give you the ability to hit shorter clubs into greens.

Also does the approach you use lead to lower scores when you hit more fairways than days you don’t?

 

I LOVE Bulle Rock (played it many times when my handicap was lower; don’t know how I’d fare if I played there now).  I’ve also played Whiskey Creek a couple of times, and if I recall correctly, it beat me up pretty good, with me shooting in the mid-90s.  There was another course out in western MD (between Frederick and Hagerstown, I believe) that I played twice that was a real brute.

[RickyBobby_PR]

45 minutes ago, funkyjudge said:

I LOVE Bulle Rock (played it many times when my handicap was lower; don’t know how I’d fare if I played there now).  I’ve also played Whiskey Creek a couple of times, and if I recall correctly, it beat me up pretty good, with me shooting in the mid-90s.  There was another course out in western MD (between Frederick and Hagerstown, I believe) that I played twice that was a real brute.

It will get you if having a bad day especially the back 9 starting on 12

[chisag]

On 8/11/2021 at 9:10 AM, cnosil said:

More fairways doesn’t seem to equate to more GIR or better scoring in my game. I am relatively consistent in FW and GIR totals.   Obviously I would rather be in the fairway but as long as I have a reasonable shot at hitting the green I am happy with the tee shot.  My scoring is more driven by my short game shots.

 

 

... I am with you and RB to a certain degree but quite a few factors involved, mostly what kind of course are you playing? Most of the desert courses I play here in Phoenix hitting the fairway is almost irrelevant, unless you find the rocky desert. Rough is light or even like a first cut and while there is an advantage of getting the ball close to the pin from the fairway with scoring irons, it isn't that much more difficult to hit the green from the light rough. Several courses I played back in Chicago had thick rough that made hitting the green almost impossible from 125 and longer. Even a links style course back there had rough so deep, just a few inches off the fairway could result in a lost ball I had to step on to find.