Liv Golf Central Thread: Events and News

[PeterHenric]

2 hours ago, Middler said:

And it doesn't help that LIV players give every reason in the book for why they joined, instead of just admitting it was for the money first and foremost. They're not fooling anyone...

I'm aware that they were in the minority, but Dechambeau and Perez stated that, among other things, money was a reason why they went. Not the only reason but a reason nonetheless. Dechambeau talked about how he already spent or planned on spending the money that he got from this deal. 

 

In regards to sports washing, here is what I don't get: this tournament/organization doesn't make me think any differently about the Saudis. I'm roughly aware of what they've done and that they are bad people. This doesn't change that. Am I in the minority? 

[PeterHenric]

4 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

I’ve been to events where some of these guys were the only big names. The attendance wasn’t higher than previous years. 
 

Do they draw fans sure, but they aren’t going to cost an event tens of thousands of in person spectators. The events are still going to draw the fans because it’s a pga event.

Tv viewership isn’t going to lose what they would consider significant numbers when the other big names lie rahm, rory, JT are all there and in contention like they will be most weeks

Yeah, I don't agree with you but that's okay. I just know that each week I look to see who is committed to play at each tournament. Over the last few months, I have seen fewer and fewer guys playing that make me think "I need to see this". Consequently, even on non-LIV event weekends, I have been watching less and less PGA and more LPGA depending on who is playing for them as well. I guess I'm a sucker for big names.

[chisag]

15 minutes ago, PeterHenric said:

In regards to sports washing, here is what I don't get: this tournament/organization doesn't make me think any differently about the Saudis. I'm roughly aware of what they've done and that they are bad people. This doesn't change that. Am I in the minority? 

 

... Yup. The irony is you live in a country that allows you to have an opinion about a country that does not. 

[chisag]

8 hours ago, PeterHenric said:

I have been watching less and less PGA and more LPGA depending on who is playing for them as well.

 

... I think I see more smiles in one round on the LPGA than I see in an entire season on the PGA Tour and I find the Ladies more fun to watch. Like you, unless there is someone I love to watch on the PGA I just don't watch much other than some courses I love, all the Majors and the Ryder/Presidents Cup. TV is showing so much more College and Am Tournaments that it is easy to get saturated with golf. 

[RickyBobby_PR]

16 minutes ago, PeterHenric said:

Yeah, I don't agree with you but that's okay. I just know that each week I look to see who is committed to play at each tournament. Over the last few months, I have seen fewer and fewer guys playing that make me think "I need to see this". Consequently, even on non-LIV event weekends, I have been watching less and less PGA and more LPGA depending on who is playing for them as well. I guess I'm a sucker for big names.

Some people do pay attention to that and some just want to watch the golf. 
 

What I find interesting is the “avid” golf fans don’t like DJ because he’s boring, Sousa unintelligent in interviews. They don’t like brooks because of his attitude and similar approach in interviews of not caring. They don’t like the scientist persona or stuffiness Bryson gives off yet they are upset they left the tour 

[Middler]

1 hour ago, PeterHenric said:

I'm aware that they were in the minority, but Dechambeau and Perez stated that, among other things, money was a reason why they went. Not the only reason but a reason nonetheless. Dechambeau talked about how he already spent or planned on spending the money that he got from this deal. 

Proof by exception, aka rationalization. Every player who has chosen to join LIV did it for the money first and foremost and everyone knows it, yet they keep spouting other reasons. Just admit it instead of making up nonsense talking points and acting like the money wasn’t a factor.

[Stuka44]

1 hour ago, PeterHenric said:

I know that I don't speak for everyone in how I feel about these guys but you can't say they don't make a difference. NO ONE is Tiger, I know that. But these guys do matter. That's why the PGA is acting like they are. Trying to circle the wagons and point out to the rest of the people on tour how bad those guys are. The PGA is insecure and they know it.

You might as well speak for me.  I'm 56 and there is nobody left playing on the PGA who I am going to spend 3-5 hours watching play in a golf tournament.  I turned it on last week and while I am a Tony Finau fan, and I like him, when I saw the rest of the first page of the leaderboard, there was nobody on there I cared the least about, as to if they caught him  or not.  So I turned it off figuring Tony would either win or he wouldn't.  Had Watson, Dechambeau, or Koepka been chasing him, maybe I would have, but with who was on there, Not a Chance!

I know everyone likes different players, but I keep coming back to the same thing.  The guys going to LIV are players people "Like".  I find it necessary to keep repeating myself.

I can't recount to you a single shot from any of the 4 rounds from the masters, of which I watched every second of the coverage on TV, struck by Scottie Sheffler. I will never forget  DeChambeau's drives accross #6 at Bayhill.  And go ahead point out to me how long they have been up on Youtube, but the most views of evershot of Scottie Sheffler at the Masters is like 150,000.  Dechambeaus drives have 2M, and 1.5M, the guys that have left DO MATTER, and the PGA tour had better be worried.

 

[Middler]

22 minutes ago, stuka44 said:

I know everyone likes different players, but I keep coming back to the same thing.  The guys going to LIV are players people "Like".  I find it necessary to keep repeating myself.

Sure they all have their fans but Garcia, Reed and Poulter were not well liked on the tour or by fans. Garcia said “I like to feel loved and sincerely in the European Tour I don’t feel loved now” - boo hoo. DeChambeau has always had a love him or hate him relationship with fans, not many neutrals. Phil was very popular but he seriously damaged his image this year, that’s why he went into hiding for months. There’s no one on the LIV tour so far that is among the most liked between the PGA and LIV rosters. If you like LIV and their players, that’s fine and dandy…

[RickyBobby_PR]

1 hour ago, Middler said:

Sure they all have their fans but Garcia, Reed and Poulter were not well liked on the tour or by fans. Garcia said “I like to feel loved and sincerely in the European Tour I don’t feel loved now” - boo hoo. DeChambeau has always had a love him or hate him relationship with fans, not many neutrals. Phil was very popular but he seriously damaged his image this year, that’s why he went into hiding for months. There’s no one on the LIV tour so far that is among the most liked between the PGA and LIV rosters. If you like LIV and their players, that’s fine and dandy…

Same for DJ and Koepka. Fans thing they are boring and sound stupid in interviews.

two things I find interesting in this thread.

1. Members are mad at the pga for making the players abide by the rules the players created and that as a business like any other business the pga is protecting their business and their members who chose to abide by their own rules

2. golf fans aren’t fans of watching golf at the highest level. Why because a big name isn’t on the first page of the leaderboard. Maybe they aren’t fans of golf after all and just fanboys of certain players 

[fixyurdivot]

Going way out on the limb here and guessing DJ probably dosen't care what some folks think about him, his gunslinger stride, or his interview style. 

[PeterHenric]

1 hour ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

2. golf fans aren’t fans of watching golf at the highest level. Why because a big name isn’t on the first page of the leaderboard. Maybe they aren’t fans of golf after all and just fanboys of certain players 

I admitted that.

I LOVE golf but I also LOVE a big name. I don’t particularly care for BK style but DJ, BD, Wolff, are fun people to watch because they have unique styles/swings. 

[fixyurdivot]

This is a complete surprise... not. They'll likely get the TRO since the timeframe to resolve this before the playoffs is so short.  If that happens and one of them wins, only to lose the lawsuit and have to give the money back, what a story.

Phil Mickelson, Bryson DeChambeau lead group of 11 LIV golfers suing PGA Tour for antitrust practices | Golf News and Tour Information | Golf Digest

What a fascinating mess.

[Bang60]

3 hours ago, fixyurdivot said:

This is a complete surprise... not. They'll likely get the TRO since the timeframe to resolve this before the playoffs is so short.  If that happens and one of them wins, only to lose the lawsuit and have to give the money back, what a story.

Phil Mickelson, Bryson DeChambeau lead group of 11 LIV golfers suing PGA Tour for antitrust practices | Golf News and Tour Information | Golf Digest

What a fascinating mess.

Hi hum, this has become a big yawn for me. Man's ego to the fore in both camps lol, I really don't care either way anymore, I do think that if you leave one paddock because the grass in greener over the road fine, man up and stick with it for better or worse. You've made your bed now lie in it....

[BIG STU]

9 hours ago, fixyurdivot said:

Going way out on the limb here and guessing DJ probably dosen't care what some folks think about him, his gunslinger stride, or his interview style. 

Even back in his college days DJ did not give two hoots what anyone said or thought about him. He did his own thing. I knew him back in the CCU days. I think part of his effect in interviews is from being sorta camera shy and I still believe even after all these years he is still shell shocked over his accomplishments. In his college days he was outgoing and pleasant. Now I have only seen him one time since he became rich and famous and he remembered me and asked about a mutual friend. And as always "hey Stuey". He introduced me to the guy who is running his Golf Academy over at TPC here who was his golf coach at CCU. Told the guy ( I forgot his name) that he knew me and my bud from his CCU days

[MyWifesSwingCoach]

4 hours ago, BIG STU said:

Even back in his college days DJ did not give two hoots what anyone said or thought about him. He did his own thing. I knew him back in the CCU days. I think part of his effect in interviews is from being sorta camera shy and I still believe even after all these years he is still shell shocked over his accomplishments. In his college days he was outgoing and pleasant. Now I have only seen him one time since he became rich and famous and he remembered me and asked about a mutual friend. And as always "hey Stuey". He introduced me to the guy who is running his Golf Academy over at TPC here who was his golf coach at CCU. Told the guy ( I forgot his name) that he knew me and my bud from his CCU days

Stu... In my short time on this site I have seen so many interesting stories from you, and while I don't know you I mean this wholeheartedly... Write an autobiography man! lol

[TBS]

18 hours ago, PeterHenric said:

In regards to sports washing, here is what I don't get: this tournament/organization doesn't make me think any differently about the Saudis. I'm roughly aware of what they've done and that they are bad people. This doesn't change that. Am I in the minority? 

I think the initial reaction against the Saudi Investment Fund starting a golf league is already gone. So the sport washing is working. The conversation has turned to the golf product and away from Saudi issues. You see it here, people are tired of hearing about where the money is coming from because of these type of arguments -  "generational wealth... you would turn this down?? what about Aramco LPGA? your 401k is full of saudi companies..." 

I think we will see this go to Congress. The reality is that there is nothing stopping the Saudi Investment Fund from doing this to all other professional and even amateur sports leagues in the US. 

I've said it before but nothing is stopping this from happening in College Football. I'll pick on Liberty and if Jerry Falwall was still there... Jerry could call up his political connections to get in touch with someone over the SIF. SIF agrees and does an NIL deal with every player on Liberty's football and basketball team for $1 mil / yr. Liberty becomes a powerhouse, leaves their conference to play international matches and takes all of the top talent out of the US. SIF does this with 1 or 2 more schools and college football goes from what it is now to watching the MAC every Saturday in the fall.

[Middler]

What a tiresome train wreck, millionaires (some spoiled hypocrites) in court again for years - yawn. I hope OWGR, the majors and/or sponsors force LIV to be entirely separate from the PGA, though I fully realize that probably won't may not happen - it's not a fair fight $ wise. Let the PGA move forward with their players, their tournaments and the majors they've nurtured and supported for generations. And let LIV move forward with their own events, and whatever players they attract from wherever. If PIF gets the PR and (eventual) ROI they want from the LIV sideshow, so be it. LIV has already damaged the PGA with no regard for the traditions of golf, I don't see any reason the PGA should help them along as some here seem to think...

[chisag]

7 minutes ago, Middler said:

What a tiresome train wreck, millionaires (some spoiled hypocrites) in court again for years - yawn. I hope OWGR, the majors and/or sponsors force LIV to be entirely separate from the PGA, though I fully realize that probably won't may not happen. Let the PGA move forward with their players, their tournaments and the majors they've nurtured and supported for generations. And let LIV move forward with their own events, and whatever players they attract from wherever. If PIF gets the publicity and (eventual) ROI they want from the LIV sideshow, so be it. LIV has already damaged the PGA, I don't see any reason the PGA should help them along as some here seem to think...

 

... Justin Thomas:


“They’re suing me, they’re suing Rory, they’re suing Tiger,” JT explained that the LIV Players who have chosen to file the lawsuit are suing all those they have played in events with and those who have represented the same cup teams.

Thomas explained the feelings of betrayal and continued to voice how the lawsuits hurt the Tour that he represents. And the lawsuits themselves make little sense. Justin Thomas remains a stalwart of the PGA Tour voice, and it is difficult to see how things don’t get uglier going forward. Professional golf remains in a precarious position, and there is no way that the golfers alone are this cynical and strategic. The driving force behind the lawsuits has clearly demonstrated that they do not intend to grow the game but rather tear down its current order.

[LICC]

On 8/4/2022 at 12:06 PM, stuka44 said:

I am glad the lawsuit is here, and I hope the players win.  I'm trying to avoid the politics as directed by the moderators, as best I can.  The PGA's Nonprofit status is continually under question, and does anyone really think the as yet undisclosed amount of money(to the IRS) they gave to China to stop its "golf bashing" all really went to China's "golf program", I would bet on the side of "no"!   I'm just not sure the PGA really occupies the seat two down to the left next to the Holy Spirit.

I'm just not sure the PGA and its aims and objectives are really the wholly altruistic endevour that many think it is. The last number I saw is that 20% of what the PGA makes goes to Charity, and this is great, but that's why many question its "nonprofit/non tax paying status" .  Now I don't know what the numbers are but all professional sprots leagues , their individual teams, and a great many of  their highly paid players, donate to charity, have foundations, and things organizationally, and individually that benefit a myriad of people.

  I'm just not sure why there is the need to "crush and berate" professional golfers for getting paid. Very few people and almost nobody in the media that I am aware of accused Patrick Mahomes, Mike Trout, and Francisco Lindor, figureatively speaking of being "money grubbing, A-holes" for signing their $450, $430, and $330 million dollar contracts respectively.  And are we sure that these players "taking the money" are just going to buy fancy cars, and not use it to do some good with it individually.  I have to admit if one of them donate to a hospital that one day cures one of my grandkids of an illness, am I going to care where the money came from .... as Money Ball said....  "Rocco he gets on base, do I care if its a walk or a hit"  ...."Pete"......"You do not"

Oh and my daughter just sent me a letter Monahan sent to all the PGA players all about transparency, funny it doesn't mention how much they paid china.  PGA Tour is a money grubbing sham!

Non-profit status is not based on donations to charity.

It's been stated over and over in the comments above how players in other sports changing teams is not anything like this situation, which is a new Tour attacking the PGA Tour and attempting to poach its top players.

[LICC]

On 8/4/2022 at 3:35 PM, RickyBobby_PR said:

Some people do pay attention to that and some just want to watch the golf. 
 

What I find interesting is the “avid” golf fans don’t like DJ because he’s boring, Sousa unintelligent in interviews. They don’t like brooks because of his attitude and similar approach in interviews of not caring. They don’t like the scientist persona or stuffiness Bryson gives off yet they are upset they left the tour 

I never cared for watching Bryson, with his annoying personality and wacky-looking swing. Brooks has never been compelling in regular PGA Tour events. DJ was fun to watch when he was playing well but he had not been doing much in the year+ before joining LIV.

[LICC]

19 hours ago, PeterHenric said:

I don’t particularly care for BK style but DJ, BD, Wolff, are fun people to watch because they have unique styles/swings. 

I hate seeing Wolff's nutty-looking swing. He has been a mess on the PGA Tour. I would watch any of guys competing on the PGA Tour over him.

[Middler]

2 hours ago, LICC said:

I hate seeing Wolff's nutty-looking swing. He has been a mess on the PGA Tour. I would watch any of guys competing on the PGA Tour over him.

+1. Wolff’s swing is awful, with the goofy tick - but obviously he’s made it work somewhat.

[Bang60]

I was watching player interviews and "Notables" names in the field was running across the bottom of the screen and I didn't know ONE, WHY? Where have they gone..

[Bang60]

1 hour ago, LICC said:

I hate seeing Wolff's nutty-looking swing. He has been a mess on the PGA Tour. I would watch any of guys competing on the PGA Tour over him.

Nutty swing indeed sir, I'm sure it's a winners swing rite lol lol

[Bang60]

14 minutes ago, Middler said:

+1. Wolff’s swing is awful, but obviously he’s made it work somewhat.

"Somewhat" has to be the most understated statement I've read in a while, I love Wolff's swing because it inspires me to keep practicing with my rubbish swing lol...

[Middler]

26 minutes ago, Bang60 said:

"Somewhat" has to be the most understated statement I've read in a while, I love Wolff's swing because it inspires me to keep practicing with my rubbish swing lol...

One PGA win over 3 years ago, a bunch of missed cuts since and #83 OWGR isn’t setting the world on fire among his peers…

[RickyBobby_PR]

1 hour ago, Middler said:

+1. Wolff’s swing is awful, with the goofy tick - but obviously he’s made it work somewhat.

 

54 minutes ago, Middler said:

One PGA win over 3 years ago, a bunch of missed cuts since and #83 OWGR isn’t setting the world on fire among his peers…

His swing is very functional. He used the ground extremely well and is always in balance. 
 

His college career was pretty good too.

His lack of success on the pga tour isn’t his swing. He got hurt and also was having trouble accommodating to tour life.

While #83 in the world seems bad in the grand scheme of things that is very impressive when you consider not only all the golfers in the or world but how many high level professionals there are only 82 rank above him

[Bang60]

1 hour ago, Middler said:

One PGA win over 3 years ago, a bunch of missed cuts since and #83 OWGR isn’t setting the world on fire among his peers…

I actually believe he's setting the world on fire, I'm guessing you yourself being the Number one player at your golf club can make that assertion.

[shootmyage]

being in the top 100 is a great  thing , he does have a different swing than anyone on tour .

my swing ( i will be 85 in a month , avg drive 225 ) is much like tony finau  , bring hands back to 10 o'clock and swing hard .

with his swing he will never break down like many full swingers with a lot of moving parts .i

[Bang60]

1 hour ago, shootmyage said:

being in the top 100 is a great  thing , he does have a different swing than anyone on tour .

my swing ( i will be 85 in a month , avg drive 225 ) is much like tony finau  , bring hands back to 10 o'clock and swing hard .

with his swing he will never break down like many full swingers with a lot of moving parts .i

85 wow 225 drive that's brilliant, hoping I'm still playing at 85. Yeah I'm trying to copy Tony's shorter swing for the same reasons, take care and keep on keeping on...