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DannyDips

Death of the Two-Person Cart

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I have a cart to drive to the course and range but strictly walk my round. I enjoy walking and will continue to do so, but I’ll admit, the motorcycle style carts in the blog look like fun. And since my wife won’t let me have a motorcycle until the kids graduate college, maybe this is my alternative .

Seriously though, I think some of these could be a viable option. While not for everyone they could help with pace of play if used in conjunction with traditional carts, larger gaps in tee times, Marshalls that enforce pace of play and triple bogey max per hole scoring.


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The range of most of those single rider carts isn't specified, but I would suspect that they would last 36 holes; probably not 54 holes, but that would depend on environmental and terrain conditions.  Maybe when the big cart guys get into this models, the range will go up.  I would think that to be cost effective, a golf course would need them to last 3 rounds.  Maybe Elon Musk will make one.  😉

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17 minutes ago, Kenny B said:

The range of most of those single rider carts isn't specified, but I would suspect that they would last 36 holes; probably not 54 holes, but that would depend on environmental and terrain conditions.  Maybe when the big cart guys get into this models, the range will go up.  I would think that to be cost effective, a golf course would need them to last 3 rounds.  Maybe Elon Musk will make one.  😉

Then we could all get our orders fulfilled by 2089!  

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1 hour ago, Kenny B said:

The range of most of those single rider carts isn't specified, but I would suspect that they would last 36 holes; probably not 54 holes, but that would depend on environmental and terrain conditions.  Maybe when the big cart guys get into this models, the range will go up.  I would think that to be cost effective, a golf course would need them to last 3 rounds.  Maybe Elon Musk will make one.  😉

Most that I have spoken to said they would last 36 holes or roughly 10 hours.   Most electric carts now last barely 36 holes.  

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1 hour ago, Golfspy_CG2 said:

Most that I have spoken to said they would last 36 holes or roughly 10 hours.   Most electric carts now last barely 36 holes.  

Three years ago last Oct, I joined this muni.  Some of the carts couldn't make 18 holes; I had to call the clubhouse an have them run a cart out for me.  In the spring they leased new Yamaha carts, and we get new ones again next month.  I haven't had any battery issues with any cart this year.  Maybe the batteries are better these days than 6 years ago when they got the last fleet.  In the summer a cart will make 54 holes on a Sat or Sun.  I don't know if they put it on the charger for awhile before sending it out again though.

Our fleet consists of 65 carts; #1 - #54 carts are electric; #55 - #65 are gas.  I've never liked gas carts, unless I'm playing a hilly course!

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I'm not saying we won't see some sort of change or trend toward individual vehicles, but as I see the problem isn't the type of vehicle that's being used on golf courses, it's the type of person driving them on golf courses.

(be warned this next part includes a lot of stereotypes)

It's the pair of retired old guys who paid their money and will take as much damn time as they want on the course.  It's the bachelor party guys who brought a keg and think a golf cart is a 4-wheeler, it's the group of 16 year olds that rented a cart for the first time and want to drive it EVERYWHERE, it's the 2 guys that decided golf might be fun and absolutely no idea what they are doing, it's the aspiring PGA pro who shoots 100 but takes 5 solid minutes deciding what club to hit and what shot to play before having to walk back to the cart and grab a different club.

Basically it's a choice of educating golfers on proper driving etiquette (how to drop someone off, drive over to a different ball and hit, and then pick up the first person after they've hit) vs forcing them to behave properly by not giving them the option to ride together.

I don't know what the correct answer is, but having a fleet of single rider carts is not the end all be all fix for pace of play issues.

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26 minutes ago, hckymeyer said:

I'm not saying we won't see some sort of change or trend toward individual vehicles, but as I see the problem isn't the type of vehicle that's being used on golf courses, it's the type of person driving them on golf courses.

(be warned this next part includes a lot of stereotypes)

It's the pair of retired old guys who paid their money and will take as much damn time as they want on the course.  It's the bachelor party guys who brought a keg and think a golf cart is a 4-wheeler, it's the group of 16 year olds that rented a cart for the first time and want to drive it EVERYWHERE, it's the 2 guys that decided golf might be fun and absolutely no idea what they are doing, it's the aspiring PGA pro who shoots 100 but takes 5 solid minutes deciding what club to hit and what shot to play before having to walk back to the cart and grab a different club.

Basically it's a choice of educating golfers on proper driving etiquette (how to drop someone off, drive over to a different ball and hit, and then pick up the first person after they've hit) vs forcing them to behave properly by not giving them the option to ride together.

I don't know what the correct answer is, but having a fleet of single rider carts is not the end all be all fix for pace of play issues.

As a course employee.  I cringe everytime I see those YouTube stunt car videos.   

I can only imagine what they would do on some of these bikes or four wheeler type cards. 😮

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8 hours ago, Kenny B said:

Maybe the batteries are better these days than 6 years ago when they got the last fleet.

I work in the battery business and battery technology has definitely improved in the past 6 years - both in terms of cost and in performance. 😉 

 

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Economic considerations aside,

and I believe that they should be put aside far more often than they are, 

individual carts sound like a great idea to me. 

I would have loved to have played with an individual motor cart. It would definitely speed up the game.

Poor etiquette and playing in proper order are often blamed for slow play, but my personal experience is that the biggest causes are unskilled play and walking.  Individual carts would be a huge improvement over shared ones, never mind walking.

 

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53 minutes ago, NiftyNiblick said:

Economic considerations aside,

and I believe that they should be put aside far more often than they are, 

individual carts sound like a great idea to me. 

I would have loved to have played with an individual motor cart. It would definitely speed up the game.

Poor etiquette and playing in proper order are often blamed for slow play, but my personal experience is that the biggest causes are unskilled play and walking.  Individual carts would be a huge improvement over shared ones, never mind walking.

I think you'll get a lot of pushback when you blame slow play on walking.  I think there are slow players who walk, but lots of slow players ride all the time too.  I blame slow play on slow players, whether they walk slowly, aren't prepared when their turn comes up, take too long to become prepared, or whatever reason.  I don't know that individual carts would definitely speed play, as compared to PROPER USE of two-ride carts, but they could.  However, unless everyone uses a solo cart, there's a limit to how much time can be gained.

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1 hour ago, NiftyNiblick said:

Individual carts would be a huge improvement over shared ones, never mind walking.

I've had to play through groups (riding) while walking with a push cart.  We're not all slow - though some certainly are.

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16 hours ago, tony@CIC said:

There is a place for both and my previous comments are related to the courses I belong to or play.

The theme of the original blog article was the death of the 2 person cart. After reading of the comments here, i still don't think it'll go away. Is there a place for the 2 wheeler of course - just like there is for the push cart or electric remote control cart.

The difference is, the player buys/owns the push or remote control cart. Presumably very few players will buy their own single rider carts, 2, 3 or 4 wheel. So courses would have to buy or lease them, and assume some liability. Under that (likely?) scenario, I can't imagine many course would buy or lease 2 wheel single rider carts and expose themselves to the liability. We all know how (in)effective hold harmless agreements can be, that's not a foolproof instrument either. But maybe I'm wrong, time will tell.

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1 minute ago, Middler said:

The difference is, the player buys a push or remote control cart. Presumably very few will buy their own single rider carts, 2, 3 or 4 wheel. So courses would have to buy them, and assume the liability. Under that (likely?) scenario, I can't imagine many course would buy or lease 2 wheel single rider carts and expose themselves to the liability. But maybe I'm wrong, time will tell.

I'd agree that this is going to be a more of a individual purchase rather than a fleet purchase. But I can see some resorts having them available as novelty items just like Segways and Jet Skis. 

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1 hour ago, DaveP043 said:

I think you'll get a lot of pushback when you blame slow play on walking.  I think there are slow players who walk, but lots of slow players ride all the time too.  I blame slow play on slow players, whether they walk slowly, aren't prepared when their turn comes up, take too long to become prepared, or whatever reason.  I don't know that individual carts would definitely speed play, as compared to PROPER USE of two-ride carts, but they could.  However, unless everyone uses a solo cart, there's a limit to how much time can be gained.

+1. One league I play in 22 weeks/season is a mix of motorized 2 person carts and walkers with push or remote control carts. In general walkers move just as quickly as 2 person carts, week after week. Although the carts are quicker between shots, the walkers all go directly to their ball instead of making two stops (sometimes far apart). And motorized can't go places walkers can, so they have to park further away some times. Or when it's cart paths only, 2 person carts are slow. So I'd conclude 2 person carts and walkers move about the same pace all else equal.

I am sure solo motorized carts would be faster than 2 person carts or walkers. By how much I don't know. Minutes, 10's of minutes, more?

And like others have said before. Slow play is only partly due to carts and other tools. In my experience, at least 50% of the cause of slow play is bad habits by players, it won't make much difference if they have a cart. The bad habits are many, and they've been detailed many times already.

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6 minutes ago, tony@CIC said:

I'd agree that this is going to be a more of a individual purchase rather than a fleet purchase. But I can see some resorts having them available as novelty items just like Segways and Jet Skis. 

Definitely. But I don't see 2 wheel single rider carts becoming a mainstream option. If single rider carts become mainstream (and they might), I think 4 wheel is the most likely option we'll have due to liability exposure. But who knows.

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+1. One league I play in 22 weeks/season is a mix of motorized 2 person carts and walkers with push or remote control carts. In general walkers move just as quickly as 2 person carts, week after week. Although the carts are quicker between shots, the walkers all go directly to their ball instead of making two stops (sometimes far apart). And motorized can't go places walkers can, so they have to park further away some times. Or when it's cart paths only, 2 person carts are slow. So I'd conclude 2 person carts and walkers move about the same pace all else equal.
I am sure solo motorized carts would be faster than 2 person carts or walkers. By how much I don't know. Minutes, 10's of minutes, more?
And like others have said before. Slow play is only partly due to carts and other tools. In my experience, at least 50% of the cause of slow play is bad habits by players, it won't make much difference if they have a cart. The bad habits are many, and they've been detailed many times already.



Completely agree. Most people who walk are usually better and quicker players.

I would really like to see how much quicker a round would be with 4 carts instead of 2. I also think it would depend on skill level greatly. 4 single digit guys might shave off an hour or more but four 20+ handicap guys might not save half that.

Personally I think the two best ways to improve pace of play is to improve the average golfers score and play “ready golf”.


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35 minutes ago, DannyDips said:

 

 


Completely agree. Most people who walk are usually better and quicker players.

I would really like to see how much quicker a round would be with 4 carts instead of 2. I also think it would depend on skill level greatly. 4 single digit guys might shave off an hour or more but four 20+ handicap guys might not save half that.

Personally I think the two best ways to improve pace of play is to improve the average golfers score and play “ready golf”.


Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy

 

 

I live on a course and most of the guys in my regular groups have their own carts.  It's quite often we have 4 guys in 4 individual carts while playing.  We can cruise, if nobody's ahead of us it's easy to play 18 in 2-ish hours.  In general we are all pretty fast golfers though.

The big problem is everybody else 🙂  That seems to be the biggest theme in this thread though.  We're never the problem, it's always everybody else.  

It's kind of a like a traffic jam on the highway.  Somebody taps their brakes in heavy traffic and it ripples back and because a dead stop 2 miles behind them.  All it takes is one slow group to slow down the entire course.  Until everyone on the course can stop being an idiot we will all suffer the consequences of idiots on the course.

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39 minutes ago, DannyDips said:

 

 


Completely agree. Most people who walk are usually better and quicker players.

I would really like to see how much quicker a round would be with 4 carts instead of 2. I also think it would depend on skill level greatly. 4 single digit guys might shave off an hour or more but four 20+ handicap guys might not save half that.

Personally I think the two best ways to improve pace of play is to improve the average golfers score and play “ready golf”.


Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy

 

 

On an empty course 4 carts would certainly be faster.  On a typical playing weekend in the summer at my muni, a group with 4 carts plays no faster than 4 walkers.  There's no where to go.

At my old course we had a group that had 4 carts and they did not care about anyone else.  If they came up on a group, they skipped ahead to the next open hole; might be 2 or 3 holes ahead, wherever it was open.  I don't know how many holes they played; they probably didn't either.  We called them "the Polo Club".

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1 hour ago, Kenny B said:

On an empty course 4 carts would certainly be faster.  On a typical playing weekend in the summer at my muni, a group with 4 carts plays no faster than 4 walkers.  There's no where to go.

At my old course we had a group that had 4 carts and they did not care about anyone else.  If they came up on a group, they skipped ahead to the next open hole; might be 2 or 3 holes ahead, wherever it was open.  I don't know how many holes they played; they probably didn't either.  We called them "the Polo Club".

😂 Did they even bother to stop the carts to swing? 

I'm just thinking if its drastically quicker to play with 4 single rider carts it might be profitable for certain courses to have them in the fleet so they can get more people on the course. That way its not just a convenience for the golfer (2-3 hour round) but its also advantageous for the course to get more people on the course on peak days.

If nothing else book the tee times where the earlier guys are guaranteed a quicker pace of play with the single carts and as the day goes on a course could work the slower double person carts since its almost guaranteed to be a longer round later into the morning.

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8 minutes ago, DannyDips said:

😂 Did they even bother to stop the carts to swing? 

I'm just thinking if its drastically quicker to play with 4 single rider carts it might be profitable for certain courses to have them in the fleet so they can get more people on the course. That way its not just a convenience for the golfer (2-3 hour round) but its also advantageous for the course to get more people on the course on peak days.

If nothing else book the tee times where the earlier guys are guaranteed a quicker pace of play with the single carts and as the day goes on a course could work the slower double person carts since its almost guaranteed to be a longer round later into the morning.

Or the course could keep track of which groups are actually slow, and deny them the opportunity to book an early tee time.  

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