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Tsecor

Iron shopping - which way do i go?

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I paid a visit to the PGA Superstore and had a look at multiple iron sets.  Arriving at the store I was completely excited to see the new T100/ T200 and CB's (Current 712 CB owner here) and Titleist did not disappoint. The new CB and T100 irons are amazing to see in person. The T200 looks really good too, but I hate the cavity (but who cares right?)

I am trying to break my mental issue of wanting the new CB or T100 because I know I need some more "help" as i progress in age, i decided to have a look at some of the other irons.

I looked at the following sets

T100 / CB / T200
MP 20 MMC / HMB
TM 790
Srixon Z 785

I also looked at the Titleist Utility irons (The U500 is amazing)

Based on look at address, the Srixon and the HMB stood out followed by the rest of the group. Srixon looked the best out of all of them. Very fluid shapes which for some reason is important to my eye when standing over the ball.

I have a few questions.

1- How do you train your eye to ignore look at address? My mind is telling me to purchase a set that is pleasing to the eye, even though it may hurt me performance wise.
2- Do you guys see any benefit of blending sets?
3- Do you think the irons such as the 790's and HMB's provide a real benefit over other irons with more traditional lofts? For example playing the HMB over the MMC seems like it would be better for me but is it just a question of jacked lofts in the HMB? Are these players distance clubs built only for greater distance?
4- Are utility irons better than hybrids off the turf and tee? or is this just personal preference? What are the benefits of a utility iron over a hybrid?

Every hitting bay was filled yesterday so I could not physically test these irons but any input from you guys would be helpful.

Just a little background but when i play a lot, I can get the HDCP to a 10 but i am really more like a 15 due to the fact i do not play as much as i used to.

Thanks

 

 

 

 

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39 minutes ago, Tsecor said:

I have a few questions.

1- How do you train your eye to ignore look at address? My mind is telling me to purchase a set that is pleasing to the eye, even though it may hurt me performance wise.  I play golf based on feel.  When I bought my last irons I hit multiple sets on the simulator and ultimately went with what felt the best.  Personally speaking I don't care what it looks like (for the most part).  Honestly, there are so many irons out there now that it's all mush to me, and ultimately I go with what feels best.  But I guess if you are addressing the ball, and your lie or loft angles are off to your eye it will affect how you hit a shot.
2- Do you guys see any benefit of blending sets?  Absolutely. I have a 3 hybrid, a 4 crossover, my 5-9 irons the same, but my PW is different from them, and all of my wedges are different.  Again, it's all based on feel and consistency with each club.  If it feels good, I will probably hit it more consistently, and with the PW specifically, I use that club a ton around greens, so it has to be money for me, or I'll find something else to use.  My other wedges are mixed, based on what I use those wedges for.  For example, my 58° LW is different from my SW and GW, because I use the LW for a lot of different shots from 90 yards and in.  The SW and GW are just full distance clubs, and I don't need to worry about the bounce on them, as I just want them to perform on a full swing.
3- Do you think the irons such as the 790's and HMB's provide a real benefit over other irons with more traditional lofts? For example playing the HMB over the MMC seems like it would be better for me but is it just a question of jacked lofts in the HMB? Are these players distance clubs built only for greater distance?  For me, you can put whatever number you want on a club, as long as I know how far I hit it.  I am hitting my irons for a specific distance, so all of these marketing campaigns that tell me I can hit those irons further is BS to me, because I want a certain iron to perform to a certain distance, and not go as far as possible.  Granted, if all of my irons go longer, then that is fine, as long as they remain consistent to the distance I am expecting from each club.
4- Are utility irons better than hybrids off the turf and tee? or is this just personal preference? What are the benefits of a utility iron over a hybrid?  I've gotten better results with my 3 hybrid, versus my 4 crossover.  I am more consistent with the hybrid, and when I have a choice, I'll pull the hybrid.  The hybrid is definitely better out of the rough.  I keep the crossover for punch shots underneath trees, where I need to keep the ball real low.  I can't keep the hybrid low.  Also, if I am playing in a lot of wind that is into me and need to keep it low, I can control the 4 crossover better then I can the hybrid, which just balloons no matter what I try.  I like having both in the bag because they have different uses.  If I had two hybrids, then I'd lose the versatility that the crossover brings, versus the hybrid, which is ultimately a single type of shot club.

My answers in red above.

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56 minutes ago, Tsecor said:

I paid a visit to the PGA Superstore and had a look at multiple iron sets.  Arriving at the store I was completely excited to see the new T100/ T200 and CB's (Current 712 CB owner here) and Titleist did not disappoint. The new CB and T100 irons are amazing to see in person. The T200 looks really good too, but I hate the cavity (but who cares right?)

I am trying to break my mental issue of wanting the new CB or T100 because I know I need some more "help" as i progress in age, i decided to have a look at some of the other irons.

I looked at the following sets

T100 / CB / T200
MP 20 MMC / HMB
TM 790
Srixon Z 785

I also looked at the Titleist Utility irons (The U500 is amazing)

Based on look at address, the Srixon and the HMB stood out followed by the rest of the group. Srixon looked the best out of all of them. Very fluid shapes which for some reason is important to my eye when standing over the ball.

I have a few questions.

1- How do you train your eye to ignore look at address? My mind is telling me to purchase a set that is pleasing to the eye, even though it may hurt me performance wise.
2- Do you guys see any benefit of blending sets?
3- Do you think the irons such as the 790's and HMB's provide a real benefit over other irons with more traditional lofts? For example playing the HMB over the MMC seems like it would be better for me but is it just a question of jacked lofts in the HMB? Are these players distance clubs built only for greater distance?
4- Are utility irons better than hybrids off the turf and tee? or is this just personal preference? What are the benefits of a utility iron over a hybrid?

Every hitting bay was filled yesterday so I could not physically test these irons but any input from you guys would be helpful.

Just a little background but when i play a lot, I can get the HDCP to a 10 but i am really more like a 15 due to the fact i do not play as much as i used to.

Thanks

 

 

 

 

Jacked lifts don’t exist. Its about launch, spin and descent/land angle (depending on which monitor is used. The key is to find an iron that provides consistent distance. 
 

i don’t believe one can train an eye to get over a look. It’s a mindset that needs to be addressed. The good thing about player distance irons is they can offer a smaller topline than a regular go type head. Several companies do a good job at hiding the mass. Srixon I think does a great job of making the 5x5 series look smaller than it is.

blending sets can be useful to get extra help in the longer irons which is where most golfers even pros look for some added forgiveness. Brands are doing a good job of either offering mixed sets or designing their lineup to be blended more easily these days.

utility irons vs hybrids is personal preference but I also think it’s swing dependent too. If one doesn’t have a higher swing speed (95+ with driver) the chances of a utility iron working for them diminishes. The hybrid is going to be more consistent and easier to hit. Many pros especially on the LPGA use it hybrids because of the ease. 

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I am nearly the same hdcp and look at the exact same irons!

A fitter once told me to start with irons that meet the 'eye test'. You want to look down on the club and feel confident.

Once youve selected a few sets, youve got to try them out. The weight balance of each will feel different. You'll most likely hit one set much better than all the rest. Pay attention to your misses and how those look. Is it BAD misses or just a little off. With 2 or 3 sets selected, see if they will let you borrow some clubs or demos and hit them on a real grass driving range. I was able to do that with my last set and it made a HUGE difference. I put the clubs down, looked away and grabbed one and hit it. I didnt want to feel biased towards one brand or another, just wanted to have the best irons for me.

Back at the fitter, they'll be able to then fine tune those irons into the best shaft for your swing.

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You're already received lots of good advice - In the end you need to go with what you like - I have far more game improvement in my irons than my handicap might indicate but it's because my swing profile fits a wider sole plain and simple - I have just gotten accustomed to the look although the jump from the G30 W to the SCOR 48 is pretty radical - I just trust that I can hit each well and live with the look.

I don't know what you mean by getting older - are you moving into your 40's, 50's, 60's, 70's?  That makes a huge difference - regardless I think that getting older is best handled by the shaft - a different shaft can help with trajectory just as easily as club head type.

There is no right or wrong answer to the question of which is best at the top end of the club - the proper question is which is best for you.  I would strongly suggest you look at the Ping Long game gapping thread in the member review section and you see four different players who went for a Ping fitting and received 4 very different solutions - I know that my gapping at that end of the bag is far better than it was prior to that fitting and I would never have stumbled upon it by myself.

 

I'm all for blending but again you need to watch your gapping at the transition points - because launch characteristics are different between iron types lofts are different - you can't assume that a 22 degree utility iron is going to be the proper fit after a 25 degree player's iron or distance iron for that matter - you have to test it out first to make sure it's right - for you!

Finally I don't know what your budget is but there is a line called Sub 70 that is quite good - you could save lots of dough by going with those clubs and use it for lessons or a range membership to help further you along the way to that goal of a 10. 

 

Good Luck!

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All great responses that provide a ton of insight to me. I really appreciate you guys taking the time to write these responses.  I am now a 50yr old but still swing the driver ~-105 -107 depending on how I'm feeling that day.  I need a 200 -210 yard club which is why I'm looking for another hybrid or Utility.

As far as irons go, there are so many irons out there which are beautiful and seem to fit my eye.  I guess ill go and hit the top 4 or 5 i seem to like and go from there. the P790 seems to be very very popular and very explosive.  I need to find a set that helps me with long iron forgiveness but i am a feel player in the short game. I cannot see myself using a real hot iron around the green. I need pure feel to control my chipping and distances up to 110 or so.  That's why i asked about blending. I don't need a 8 degree gap which leaves me in trouble picking a club

 

 

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To quote Sam Robinson "Play the most forgiving irons that you can look at."

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6 hours ago, Tsecor said:

As far as irons go, there are so many irons out there which are beautiful and seem to fit my eye.  I guess ill go and hit the top 4 or 5 i seem to like and go from there.

That we have so many great options to select from can make this exercise overwhelming - particularly if you are like me and not one to change often. I ended up creating a shortlist but it included several models that just were not available for me to test. Perhaps I missed it, but you don't say you have had an iron fitting.  If you haven't, I would highly recommend you do.  A competent fitter will have you quickly aligned with the category of clubs that you should focus on; and that will help narrow things down.  From there it will come down to the numbers, feel, and looks - with tie breakers going to any allegiance you have to certain mfg's (my case in choosing PING over Mizuno).  Good luck!

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35 minutes ago, fixyurdivot said:

That we have so many great options to select from can make this exercise overwhelming - particularly if you are like me and not one to change often. I ended up creating a shortlist but it included several models that just were not available for me to test. Perhaps I missed it, but you don't say you have had an iron fitting.  If you haven't, I would highly recommend you do.  A competent fitter will have you quickly aligned with the category of clubs that you should focus on; and that will help narrow things down.  From there it will come down to the numbers, feel, and looks - with tie breakers going to any allegiance you have to certain mfg's (my case in choosing PING over Mizuno).  Good luck!

I had a fitting for my 712 cb’s.  Was actually placed into an AP2 but my stubborn nature said “i like the cbs better”.  I eventually played my best golf with them.  I worked at it and the cbs were my fav club of all time.  I have only owned 3 sets in 33 years so i average 11 years a set.  I havent been fit in 7 years so its time again.  
 

i just dont have any confidence in having a pga susperstore employee Fit me because its either a 22 ye old kid or a 60 yr old who is headed to kfc after work.  But its the only place neAr me that has every brand of club

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10 hours ago, Tsecor said:

I had a fitting for my 712 cb’s.  Was actually placed into an AP2 but my stubborn nature said “i like the cbs better”.  I eventually played my best golf with them.  I worked at it and the cbs were my fav club of all time.  I have only owned 3 sets in 33 years so i average 11 years a set.  I havent been fit in 7 years so its time again.  
 

i just dont have any confidence in having a pga susperstore employee Fit me because its either a 22 ye old kid or a 60 yr old who is headed to kfc after work.  But its the only place neAr me that has every brand of club

Go there demo every iron you are interested in the find somewhere you trust to fit the one or ones your narrowed down to

or pay for pga SS tour van fitting 

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Lots of good advice above. Hit every iron you’re considering, side by side as much as possible. Only you can decide how much weight to give performance, game improvement features, feel, looks, brand, cost and whatever else. Feel is very high on my list and I can’t ignore looks, though I wouldn’t choose solely based on looks. Distance is low on my list, IOW I’d never pick just based on which I hit longest, especially with irons (e.g. maybe more of a factor in choosing a driver).

Same with hybrids vs utility irons. Hybrids are popular for a reason, higher launch, more distance, more forgiving. That said, I had too many mishits with the Callaway and then Mizuno hybrids I had and I’ve given up on them after 3 years carrying one, and just bought a utility iron. It’s probably all in my head, but that’s part of golf.

As for blending sets, just mind your lofts and gaps. Some models blend easily, others don’t. There was a guy here who ended up carrying two 7-irons as they were at a crossover and one was 10 yards longer than the other. I wouldn’t be OK with that. YMMV

Best of luck. The only person who can decide what’s best is you, and the best answer is somewhat unique to each of us.

Edited by Middler

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19 minutes ago, Middler said:

Lots of good advice above. Hit every iron you’re considering, side by side as much as possible. Only you can decide how much weight to give performance, game improvement features, feel, looks, brand, cost and whatever else. Feel is very high on my list and I can’t ignore looks, though I wouldn’t choose solely based on looks. Distance is low on my list, IOW I’d never pick just based on which I hit longest, especially with irons (e.g. maybe more of a factor in choosing a driver).

Same with hybrids vs utility irons. Hybrids are popular for a reason, higher launch, more distance, more forgiving. That said, I had too many mishits with the Callaway and then Mizuno hybrids I had and I’ve given up on them after 3 years carrying one, and just bought a utility iron. It’s probably all in my head, but that’s part of golf.

Best of luck. The only person who can decide what’s best is you, and the best answer is somewhat unique to each of us.

so true. Thank you

Let us know how you make out with th3e UI.  I am VERY interested in how you hit that vs the hybrid.

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52 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

Go there demo every iron you are interested in the find somewhere you trust to fit the one or ones your narrowed down to

or pay for pga SS tour van fitting 

Ill be at the PGA store sometime next week to see what i come up with.  Its almost a negative there are so many great choices. I'm thinking my head might explode. I almost bought the Titleist U500 on the spot without even testing it. It felt so good in the hand and looked amazing. I had instant confidence without even swinging it.....and hence, that's my mental problem.  I think "This feels and looks great. Ill be able to hit it great!" lol....but i pulled back and am trying my best to do this the right way.

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28 minutes ago, Tsecor said:

Ill be at the PGA store sometime next week to see what i come up with.  Its almost a negative there are so many great choices. I'm thinking my head might explode. I almost bought the Titleist U500 on the spot without even testing it. It felt so good in the hand and looked amazing. I had instant confidence without even swinging it.....and hence, that's my mental problem.  I think "This feels and looks great. Ill be able to hit it great!" lol....but i pulled back and am trying my best to do this the right way.

I just bought a Mizuno MP-20 HMB 3-iron without swinging one. Two rounds so far and I like it better than the Mizuno CLK it replaced (both 19 deg), but I need more play to draw conclusions. It doesn’t “feel” as good as my JPX900’s though, I chalk that up to forged vs cast, always been a sticking point for me - much prefer full forged (forged face isn’t the same IME).

Edited by Middler

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I certainly understand wanting an iron that looks good to your eye.  Maybe train yourself to look at the ball instead of the clubhead?

Your post seems to indicate that you think the HMBs have jacked lofts, but the lofts are the same as those in the MMCs, with a 46 degree pw and a 32 degree 7 iron.  By modern standards those aren't that strong.

I just picked up my new HMBs yesterday and am very pleased.  I've only hit one bucket of balls with them, but the only thing I would change is to make the profile slightly smaller in the mid irons, BUT that would probably have a negative impact on forgiveness and they seem very forgiving so far.  And I really like the feel and sound.  Good luck in your hunt!

Spoiler

 

 

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On 10/10/2019 at 5:38 AM, Tsecor said:

I paid a visit to the PGA Superstore and had a look at multiple iron sets.  Arriving at the store I was completely excited to see the new T100/ T200 and CB's (Current 712 CB owner here) and Titleist did not disappoint. The new CB and T100 irons are amazing to see in person. The T200 looks really good too, but I hate the cavity (but who cares right?)

I am trying to break my mental issue of wanting the new CB or T100 because I know I need some more "help" as i progress in age, i decided to have a look at some of the other irons.

I looked at the following sets

T100 / CB / T200
MP 20 MMC / HMB
TM 790
Srixon Z 785

I also looked at the Titleist Utility irons (The U500 is amazing)

Based on look at address, the Srixon and the HMB stood out followed by the rest of the group. Srixon looked the best out of all of them. Very fluid shapes which for some reason is important to my eye when standing over the ball.

I have a few questions.

1- How do you train your eye to ignore look at address? My mind is telling me to purchase a set that is pleasing to the eye, even though it may hurt me performance wise.
2- Do you guys see any benefit of blending sets?
3- Do you think the irons such as the 790's and HMB's provide a real benefit over other irons with more traditional lofts? For example playing the HMB over the MMC seems like it would be better for me but is it just a question of jacked lofts in the HMB? Are these players distance clubs built only for greater distance?
4- Are utility irons better than hybrids off the turf and tee? or is this just personal preference? What are the benefits of a utility iron over a hybrid?

Every hitting bay was filled yesterday so I could not physically test these irons but any input from you guys would be helpful.

Just a little background but when i play a lot, I can get the HDCP to a 10 but i am really more like a 15 due to the fact i do not play as much as i used to.

Thanks

 

 

 

 

Not sure if you already had a chance to go out and test some clubs, but I thought I’d throw my two cents in here. 

First, is there a true spec location near you? They’re currently offering a free full bag fitting through the end of the month, which I highly recommend. I went last week for giggles to see if what I fit myself for was correct as I try and learn more about the process. The fitter was extremely knowledgeable, the toys plentiful, and the results left me feeling like I’d be seeing lower numbers soon. 

To speak to the eye test, I tried the ping i500 and absolutely loved the feel when I pured them. I’ve felt very few clubs that had that buttery sensation off the club face. I could not stand how they looked. Despite my protests of wanting to hit them more, the fitter said look is an important part, as evidenced by my struggle to flush them more often. Golf is too mental to not feel confident looking down at the ball.

Side note, has anyone hit these? They are sooooo tall! Freaked me out. So buttery smooth though...why weren’t you more beautiful?!

With regard to blended sets, a lot of people have had success with this. Especially on the merit of having more forgiveness in the long irons but control in the short ones. Ultimately, you’d want to see the numbers and try to hit some different shots to see what inspires confidence that you can put the ball where you want it.

Looking at the difference between players distance irons and blades, they do what the manufacturer says generally. You will get more distance, but you will sacrifice workability. It would really depend on where you are with your game. I was fitted for p790s after hitting both srixons, the mizuno hmb, Titleist, and the butter-face i500. My misses were just better with the p790s, distance was pretty negligible amongst that group.

Like others have said, unless your swing speed is way up there, get a hybrid.

Hope you end up with a great set of sticks!

 

 

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16 hours ago, Hook DeLoft said:

I certainly understand wanting an iron that looks good to your eye.  Maybe train yourself to look at the ball instead of the clubhead?

Your post seems to indicate that you think the HMBs have jacked lofts, but the lofts are the same as those in the MMCs, with a 46 degree pw and a 32 degree 7 iron.  By modern standards those aren't that strong.

I just picked up my new HMBs yesterday and am very pleased.  I've only hit one bucket of balls with them, but the only thing I would change is to make the profile slightly smaller in the mid irons, BUT that would probably have a negative impact on forgiveness and they seem very forgiving so far.  And I really like the feel and sound.  Good luck in your hunt!

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

I should have expanded on the lofts. I'm used to playing "traditional" lofts so that's the comparison, not really MMC vs HMB. 

glad you found a nice set and I hope they work out well for you 

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1 hour ago, Tsecor said:

I should have expanded on the lofts. I'm used to playing "traditional" lofts so that's the comparison, not really MMC vs HMB. 

glad you found a nice set and I hope they work out well for you 

Which traditional lofts? The ones from the 60s-70s, 80s, 90s or the 2000s?

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1 hour ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

Which traditional lofts? The ones from the 60s-70s, 80s, 90s or the 2000s?

There is really only one “traditional” in the sense of this discussion.   But take your pick.  Lofts today are jacked up compared to most eras

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8 hours ago, Tsecor said:

There is really only one “traditional” in the sense of this discussion.   But take your pick.  Lofts today are jacked up compared to most eras

There’s no standard to what an iron is even within the same category of iron, but that’s a discussion for another thread.

 

 

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