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Wedge shafts steel or graphite

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This is a related question to the fitting thread but a somewhat seperate issue. For the past several years I've played graphite shafts in my clubs from Driver through PW. I've had steel shafts in my other wedges. I'd like to say that this was intentional but not really - I bought my wedges seperately out of concern for the short game - since they worked I didn't change the shafts.

 

But now I'm wondering - Is it really that crazy to have wedges that are steel and graphite in the rest of the set? If I were to put in a suitable graphite shaft what would it do to my wedges? I intend to use the winter to tweak away until I've got the proper shaft/head combo on everything in my bag.

 

Any thoughts on this?

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I'm curious now about your Scor fitting. I know that the Genius 12's are KBS wedge shafts, while most (or all) of their other wedge shaft fitting results are graphite. How did they come to that conclusion for you?

 

On a related note, if you do happen to replace the KBS shafts this winter, I would totally buy them off ya!

 

Paul

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Nothing crazy about steel in the wedges and graphite in the irons, see it all the time. The thinking goes that since the wedges aren't "full swing/max distance" clubs, you don't need the benefits of the lighter weight graphite.

 

Hard to say what benefits you might get out of graphite in the wedges vs. steel. I am generally a proponent of having the same shaft, or at least very similar, all the way through so that the feel is consistent, but that is born out of my personal preference, no hard science.

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Thanks Matt so long as things fall into the category of personal preference and not science I'm going with personal preference - for now the shaft/head combo on thos SCORs work as did the shaft/head combo on my old Ping Tours so I'm going to let them stay in the bag as is. I'd only change if there were a compelling reason.

 

@ Paul I didn't have a SCOR fitting - I waited for my Mizuno fitting and then ordered the SCOR's accordingly - 2 degrees flat, KBS R flex - I'm sure I've had little difficulty adjusting to them as much because they are similar to what I had in the Pings. It's a very small adjustment. In fact I'm already better with the SCORS at all facets of the short game other than part shots and pitches out of light rough - that's a big deal but it's a big manageable deal as I can get there with practice - I need to learn to read lies better again and choose the 60 or land it shorter if I'm going to get a "flier."

 

I'm seriously thinking that once I get past New Year's I'm going to reshaft the Mizuno GW with some sort of between flex graphite. Since I swing the graphite a bit faster and more agressively I end up between regular and stiff which is what I have in my irons currently.

 

That's my plan unless someone presents a compelling argument for getting the shorter wedges in graphite as well.

 

If it ain't broke don't fix it I say.

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I prefer the similar feel of the same shaft all the way through (all of my irons and wedges are steal, i've never fit well with graphite)

 

but, I have also played different shafts in my wedges in the past and it wasn't a big negative at all.

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I actually went the opposite direction with my wedges. I just ordered 8 iron X flex KBS Tours as pseudo spinners whereas my iron shafts are S flex. Haven't had a chance to install them yet since I'm still waiting on my 4 iron to come in, but I have high hopes. But as you say, if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

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I have only ever used steel in my irons and wedges but having read some of the comments by Terry Koehler from SCOR he has been quoted as saying "I've played graphite in my scoring clubs for over five years and could never go back. The feel properties from this kind of premium graphite are astounding." Not sure what he uses in his irons though.

 

Interestingly, I have discussed the SCOR4161's with the team at SCOR and they are recommending the KBS G12 for me in their wedges. This is based on the fact that I have KBS Tour shafts in my irons and the logic is that the feel between irons to wedges would be similar. I am not convinced and will buy one with a steel shaft and one with a graphite to see for myself.

 

I am interested in your thoughts on the KBS in your SCOR4161's. Also which KBS did you go with?

 

AJ

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I have only ever used steel in my irons and wedges but having read some of the comments by Terry Koehler from SCOR he has been quoted as saying "I've played graphite in my scoring clubs for over five years and could never go back. The feel properties from this kind of premium graphite are astounding." Not sure what he uses in his irons though.

 

Interestingly, I have discussed the SCOR4161's with the team at SCOR and they are recommending the KBS G12 for me in their wedges. This is based on the fact that I have KBS Tour shafts in my irons and the logic is that the feel between irons to wedges would be similar. I am not convinced and will buy one with a steel shaft and one with a graphite to see for myself.

 

I am interested in your thoughts on the KBS in your SCOR4161's. Also which KBS did you go with?

 

AJ

 

 

I have the KBS 12's and I love them. I replaced an older set of Ping Tours that were a 59 and a 55 with a 60 and a 55. I always had trouble opening up the Ping 59 but that didn't bother me because I don't often play on elevated greens and I could hit this little cut, half flop spinner thingy that did the trick.

 

Now it feels like I can practically pop that 60 straight up and bring it straight down. I'm a bit longer with this 55 than the old 55 not that it matters - however I can hit it 90 without working too hard and am learning the old shoulder high, waste high method to give me six stock distances with each club - because of the heavier weight in the shaft and club head I think that both my tempo and control of the club is better.

 

I have way more spin on anything full with both wedges than I did the old ones and I am decidedly not a high spin player - I can back the 55 up pretty easily.

 

This one is sounding more and more like the blade/players/GI iron to me - it's a matter of personal preference - what works for you - when I'm swinging full I like a lighter feel to my clubs - that's just me - It could easily be that since I like the lighter feel when I'm swinging full that the heavier feel of steel in my wedges steadies my tempo and allows me to be more precise and accurate.

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I have only ever used steel in my irons and wedges but having read some of the comments by Terry Koehler from SCOR he has been quoted as saying "I've played graphite in my scoring clubs for over five years and could never go back. The feel properties from this kind of premium graphite are astounding." Not sure what he uses in his irons though.

 

Interestingly, I have discussed the SCOR4161's with the team at SCOR and they are recommending the KBS G12 for me in their wedges. This is based on the fact that I have KBS Tour shafts in my irons and the logic is that the feel between irons to wedges would be similar. I am not convinced and will buy one with a steel shaft and one with a graphite to see for myself.

 

I am interested in your thoughts on the KBS in your SCOR4161's. Also which KBS did you go with?

 

AJ

 

 

I have the KBS 12's and I love them. I replaced an older set of Ping Tours that were a 59 and a 55 with a 60 and a 55. I always had trouble opening up the Ping 59 but that didn't bother me because I don't often play on elevated greens and I could hit this little cut, half flop spinner thingy that did the trick.

 

Now it feels like I can practically pop that 60 straight up and bring it straight down. I'm a bit longer with this 55 than the old 55 not that it matters - however I can hit it 90 without working too hard and am learning the old shoulder high, waste high method to give me six stock distances with each club - because of the heavier weight in the shaft and club head I think that both my tempo and control of the club is better.

 

I have way more spin on anything full with both wedges than I did the old ones and I am decidedly not a high spin player - I can back the 55 up pretty easily.

 

This one is sounding more and more like the blade/players/GI iron to me - it's a matter of personal preference - what works for you - when I'm swinging full I like a lighter feel to my clubs - that's just me - It could easily be that since I like the lighter feel when I'm swinging full that the heavier feel of steel in my wedges steadies my tempo and allows me to be more precise and accurate.

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That is very interesting, I personally like a heavier iron but having said that it must be balanced. I play MP-59's with the KBS tour shafts and I have a Miura forged blade that I mess around with that also has the KBS tour shaft. The Miura feels heavier compared to the Mizuno but the swing feels lighter.

 

I have been questioning the guys at SCOR on there logic for recommending the KBS shaft in their wedges even though TK is an advocate of the graphite. I will see if they are as convincing when next we chat.

 

I agree with you on the theory of personal preference and unfortunately one's PP can be based on not being able to experience all there is on offer.

 

I am buoyed by your comment that the SCOR's spin well for you.

 

Thanks

 

AJ

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Ah now there's the comment again - I'm meaning no disrespect here what so ever - I'm wanting someone to tell me beyond feel what a blade or even muscle back has to offer over other irons. It's implied over and over again that there is something a blade can do/does that is different from other irons. So what, exactly is it?

 

Easier to work? Then why not just change balls and use a ball that's easier to work if that's so important. Surely the ball makes way, way more difference here - I'm sure there are some old Titleist balatas kicking around if it's so important to work the ball.

 

Better feedback - I know when I hit a crappy shot - I don't really need much more feedback than I get already and while I'm not a physicist I understand the golf swing well enough to know why the ball went where it did.

 

Generally speaking if I swing well I'll hit good shots even if I were using hickory shafts and if I don't - well no amount of game improvement is going to save me.

 

So what am I missing? I want irons that I can control, hit high, low, curve left, curve right, spin a bit - I can do that with about any iron I've ever hit - I've never tried any of the Super Game Improvement irons though so I can't speak for them -

 

I have no bone to pick with anyone here - there are a lot of very good players here - some are better players than I am - I would never question a good players choice in clubs - I've sometimes questioned why middle handicappers would choose a blade or players iron but to each his own - I really think it's personal preference and a good player will select the club that works best for his or her game and then make it work better still.

 

Lee Westwood was world number 1 using G10's and even I think they're a bit clumsy looking but they certainly work for him.

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It is a good question. For me I feel no difference at all between the 59's to the Miura when struck well. I take a reasonable divot with my irons and my miss hit is a fat shot. The difference between a good shot a miss between the 2 is significant with the 59 being far more forgiving than the Miura. I personally do not see any difference in work-ability between the 2 either. That said, I am an average player.

 

The only reason that I have the Miura blade is more about curiosity and ego to see how well and consistent I can be with it. It's a challenge that I set myself. I can say that I believe that I play my 59's more consistently having practiced with the blade.

 

At the risk of getting further OT, I also have a Krank Rage 4 * driver with a 50" shaft that I practice with and again I believe that this has improved my game with the TM RBZ (43.5").

 

I am thinking that SCOR maybe right though and the KBS shaft is probably the better option for me.

 

Also, I have a question regarding wedges that you have used - seeing as the SCOR4161 are a blade, have you used a non blade wedge before and if so how did they compare to a blade?

My old TZoid's do not feel anywhere as nice as my Vokey's

 

AJ

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To be honest I don't think it will make any difference because you won't be making very many full swings. If you consistently make full swings you could lose some accuracy with the graphite shafts because they have more deflection.

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My favorite Sand Wedge ever was the Eye 2 which I played with for about 15 years so I have a good deal of experience with a non-blade wedge. While my game isn't about working the ball - I try to hit everything with a slight draw, I can when I need to, particularly I can hit it low into the wind very well.

 

I haven't even thought about the SCRORs being blades even though I know they are - they fit my eye, I've hit them well since the first swing I just need to aim it, focus and hit it. I'd love to see them surplant the Eye 2 - the 60 is already my favorite lob wedge ever - I am very confident with it after only about a month.

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To be honest I don't think it will make any difference because you won't be making very many full swings. If you consistently make full swings you could lose some accuracy with the graphite shafts because they have more deflection.

 

That is a very good point. I play as many full swing shots with my wedges as I do 1/2 & 1/4 even with my 60*. I like to use the technique where you de-loft the club with the hands well forward to get a low trajectory with tons of spin.

 

Leaning more and more to stay with the KBS. Any other thoughts on this?

 

AJ

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My favorite Sand Wedge ever was the Eye 2 which I played with for about 15 years so I have a good deal of experience with a non-blade wedge. While my game isn't about working the ball - I try to hit everything with a slight draw, I can when I need to, particularly I can hit it low into the wind very well.

 

I haven't even thought about the SCRORs being blades even though I know they are - they fit my eye, I've hit them well since the first swing I just need to aim it, focus and hit it. I'd love to see them surplant the Eye 2 - the 60 is already my favorite lob wedge ever - I am very confident with it after only about a month.

 

Until this thread I had not really thought of wedges as blade or non-blade either, hence the question. This has certainly helped me with my choice of shaft for the trial with the SCOR wedges.

 

AJ

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Graphite in your wedges would give you a similar feel to that or your irons. Some would say that graphite kills the feel but feel is more about sound than vibration coming up through the shaft, so Im not sure thats a valid reason to favor steel over graphite.

LPGA Tour player Stacy Lewis uses graphite shafts in her wedges and it seems to work pretty well for her.

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You can still have a spinner type shaft and go graphite. How? Aldila has been manufacturing high spin graphite wedge shafts since before the spinner craze with their Spin Stick Proto and the Lobster. I have one of each at least, I may have more tucked away somewhere lol.

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I like the KBS shaft, very stable, very straight, provides great spin as well.

 

I don't know what graphite would be like though I've never had it on my lofted wedges. As for it being less accurate I don't think that's accurate. If it were a missfit graphite shaft it would be less accurate or if you had tour level speed I think graphite hasn't quite gotten there yet. Having written that there are enough people playing golf for a living that use graphite to make me think it's perfectly accurate if it's a quality shaft and if it's fit right.

 

Let's start with Stacy Lewis world number 2 on the LPGA - she uses graphite shafts in her irons, I think she's pretty accurate. B)

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I've tried many different wedges with many different shafts.

 

The graphite shafted wedges were Callaway Forged (not +) with GAT 95. These were from a Tour player so they had really nice grinds on them. I also tried Vokey 200 series with Aldila 120TGi wedge shafts.

 

Steel I have tried DGS200/S300/S400, KB and KB wedge (black), DG Lite, NS Pro 950/1150 in a lot of heads.

 

The key is matching the head design (grind/bounce/loft) to the shaft design.

 

 

 

I had a copper Epon wedge with a KB shaft. The Epon wedge was in itself hard to hit low, the KB shaft made it even harder to hit low.

 

The Callaways were magic but it looked funny playing lightweight graphite in my wedges and having DGs in my irons. I played those til I stupidly messed with the grind.

 

The Aldilas hit it low but seemed to loss spin compared to when they were still shafted with DG.

 

I now play a"spinner concept" aka 8iron DGS300 in my 55 and 60 wedges. It adds a bit of tip action when I need it. I hardly hit any full straight forward shots with either of thsoe clubs anyway. I'd rather do a 3/4 swing with my 50 wedge from 95 yards than a full shot with my 55 although that is what me full swing yardage would be with a 55 with the original DG wedge shaft.

 

The NS pro 950 is underrated as well if you want spin around the greens. Just a little on the light side. If you play 1" over length I would suggest these.

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