seemoreputters Posted January 23, 2023 Share Posted January 23, 2023 Do you feel as if you are ever comfortable standing over a putt? Do you have a confident feeling all the time, some of the time or never? What is it that gets you to that comfort level if it is great? It is amazing how much better one can putt when feeling comfortable over every putt. The confidence grows in the putting stroke when this happens. Appreciate your thoughts and input. tony@CIC, tdroma98 and Christof 3 Quote Any SeeMore putter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveP043 Posted January 23, 2023 Share Posted January 23, 2023 I'm a decent putter, I know I can make any putt within 10 feet or so. Not WILL make, but cane make a significant percentage of them. 42 minutes ago, seemoreputters said: It is amazing how much better one can putt when feeling comfortable over every putt. While this is an interesting question, more interesting is which comes first, success or confidence? I'm confident because I've practiced putting, particularly "makeable" putts, and I've had success on the course. I'm sure there are some players who are naturally good putters, even without practice. But for most of us, its hard to turn confidence "on", we need to develop it. To me, its not amazing that I putt better when I put in the practice that develops confidence. golferguy2727, Stuka44, tdroma98 and 2 others 5 Quote Irons Titleist T200, AMT Red stiff Rogue SubZero, GD YS-Six X T22 54 and 58 wedges 7-wood 5-wood B60 G5i putter Right handed Reston, Virginia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenny B Posted January 23, 2023 Share Posted January 23, 2023 On my home course I am confident that I can make a good putt; make a high percentage of ones I should make and lag long putts close. Confidence comes from practice and course familiarity for this old amateur. I am in AZ at the moment and I have no confidence putting on these greens or anything bermuda. tony@CIC, Stuka44 and tdroma98 3 Quote “We don’t stop playing the game because we get old; we get old because we stop playing the game.” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarlH Posted January 23, 2023 Share Posted January 23, 2023 Putting is high on my list of strengths. I feel very comfortable over my putts. While I obviously don't make every putt, I practice and feel confident with my distance control. If the putt doesn't fall, I generally have a very makable 2nd putt. I primarily play bent grass greens, but also have access and play Bermuda greens, so I feel comfortable on both. tony@CIC, Stuka44 and MrBandit 3 Quote Driver: Black Ops 12* with Cypher 50 5.0 Fairway: Black Ops 3 wood with Cypher 50 5.0 Hybrids: Black Ops 19* and 22* with Cypher 50 5.0 Irons: Gen6 6, 7, 8, 9, W, G with Cypher 50 5.0 Wedges: Sugar Daddy II 52* and 56* with Cypher 50 5.0 Putter: DF 2.1 -- BGT Stability shaft @ 34" Ball: Tour, Chrome Tour, Pro V1 Other: C10 Bag, glove My Photography can be seen at Smugmug Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuka44 Posted January 23, 2023 Share Posted January 23, 2023 I will echo these comments. I was not a confident putter, and had virtually no confidence even on 3-4 footers. With practice on my indoor putting green, and just repeating that putting stroke(probably now 1000 times since I got it), confidence has grown. I've gone from being a non confident defensive putter, to a confident positive putter. I know via putting statistics that I am not actually going to make many 12-20 footers, so I will never let not making them upset me. But my mindset now is to try and make them, having the confidence that I am a good enough putter, that 3 putting is unlikely, instead of simply being happy with a "mindless" two putt where I didn't really put any concentration into trying to make it. tdroma98, Londo and tony@CIC 3 Quote Driver: Cobra King Speedzone Irons: Mavrik 4-GW Wedges: CG-14 56 & RTX 52 Hybrid: Callaway Apex Pro 2H Woods: Gigagolf 3W, Putter: Ping Scottsdale Wolverine Ball: Srixon Z-Star XV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chisag Posted January 23, 2023 Share Posted January 23, 2023 ... Being positive is a choice. Yes, it is easier when coupled with success but I honestly think I will make every putt I face. Some days they almost all go in but on the days when nothing is falling, I always think the next putt will fall. Having a 100% definitive read helps. I have learned when I am unsure of a break, committing to something even if I am not sure can make all the difference because doubt is a killer. To be fair I am not always successful in over riding that doubt especially when it looks like it does something different from opposite sides of the hole, but I am more successful than not. I know I have said this too many times to count, but if everyone ignored the line once they think they have the read and soley concentrated on their speed, they would very rarely 3 putt. ... I am reminded of Jay Cutler after throwing 3 picks to the same DB in a game against Green Bay and asked after the game if he regretted throwing at that DB. He said If there was more time left in the game he would have thrown at him again. If he played golf Cutler would probably a very good putter. MrBandit, JohnSmalls, GaDawg and 2 others 5 Quote Driver: Qi10 10.5* ... AutoFlex Dream 7 SF405 Fairway: Qi10 5 wood ... Kai'Li Blue 70r Hybrids: G430 Hybrid 22*... Alta Hy70r Irons: P770 5-pw ... Steelfiber i80r TP UDi 4 ... Steelfiber i80r Wedges: MG3 46*/50*/54* MG4 58* ... Steelfiber i95r Putter: Custom 5.1 (no alignment) 33" Ball: '24 TP5x/Maxfli Tour X Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bellken Posted January 23, 2023 Share Posted January 23, 2023 I think I have missed enough putts to not worry about it. I am comfortable on most every putt, the exception might be fast downhill/severe breaking putts. I, just, focus on making the best stroke I can make, and, starting the ball in my intended direction. chisag, tony@CIC and Stuka44 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrBandit Posted January 24, 2023 Share Posted January 24, 2023 10 hours ago, seemoreputters said: Do you feel as if you are ever comfortable standing over a putt? Do you have a confident feeling all the time, some of the time or never? What is it that gets you to that comfort level if it is great? It is amazing how much better one can putt when feeling comfortable over every putt. The confidence grows in the putting stroke when this happens. Appreciate your thoughts and input. For me.. once I made the decision on which line am taking, am very comfortable over the putt. I just pull back and forward. Even if I miss, as long as I was hitting the spot I was intending to hit am ok. All that mean need to adjust my aim. Stuka44, seemoreputters, TR1PTIK and 1 other 4 Quote Driver: TaylorMade Qi10 MAX - 8.5 with Terra Forza White Shaft 3 -Wood: Sub70 949x 3 Wood 15 with Hrdz RDX Black Stiff 5-Wood: Sub70 949x 5 Wood with Hrdz RDX Black stiff 4-Hybrid: Sub70 949x 4 Hybrid with Project X 5.5 Hybrid Stiff Irons: Mizuno Pro 225 - 6-PW , w/Nippon Modus 105 Stiff Wedges: Sub70 TAIII w/Nippon Modus 105 Stiff - 50 ,56, 60 Putter: L.A.B Mezz1, 34 in Balls: MaxFli Tour X, TaylorMade Tour Response, TaylorMade TPx GPS: Shot Scope X5 with Tracking TESTED: SUB70 949X 5 Wood TESTED: NIPPO N.S. Regio Formula MB+ 65 Stiff. TESTED: SkyCaddie LX5 GPS Watch TESTED: Bag Boy ZFT Bag TESTED: Terra Forza Shaft Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christof Posted January 24, 2023 Share Posted January 24, 2023 If the feeling is good the putting goes well too the concentration and rhythm is then better and reads the green better, confidence and focus is better and doubts less; is so with everything, for me the closer to the hole the more stress and tension I experience before finishing it. Christof Quote Redline Monte Carlo, Face Balanced, Grip: max RTX5 58°/06°, RTX6° 54° low+8° and 48°/10°Dynamic Gold Spinner Tour Issue Wedge Flex D9: 5 en PW; KBS Max Ultralight steel Stealth F.W.7 21° and F.W.3 15° ventus red 5 regular Tour Response Tour BXS Garmin: Vivoactive 4 Air max 90 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrBandit Posted January 24, 2023 Share Posted January 24, 2023 From all of the things we doing in Golf, I think putting is the most individual part. There are 50 different ways to putt and not one is better than the other. Is all user preference and what makes you , like you said comfortable with your putt. TR1PTIK, seemoreputters, Christof and 1 other 4 Quote Driver: TaylorMade Qi10 MAX - 8.5 with Terra Forza White Shaft 3 -Wood: Sub70 949x 3 Wood 15 with Hrdz RDX Black Stiff 5-Wood: Sub70 949x 5 Wood with Hrdz RDX Black stiff 4-Hybrid: Sub70 949x 4 Hybrid with Project X 5.5 Hybrid Stiff Irons: Mizuno Pro 225 - 6-PW , w/Nippon Modus 105 Stiff Wedges: Sub70 TAIII w/Nippon Modus 105 Stiff - 50 ,56, 60 Putter: L.A.B Mezz1, 34 in Balls: MaxFli Tour X, TaylorMade Tour Response, TaylorMade TPx GPS: Shot Scope X5 with Tracking TESTED: SUB70 949X 5 Wood TESTED: NIPPO N.S. Regio Formula MB+ 65 Stiff. TESTED: SkyCaddie LX5 GPS Watch TESTED: Bag Boy ZFT Bag TESTED: Terra Forza Shaft Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golf2Much Posted January 25, 2023 Share Posted January 25, 2023 For most of my almost 50 years of golfing, my putting tended to be my Achilles heel. I would go through periods of feeling somewhat comfortable and confident to being very confident that I was going to miss my putt, I tried everything I could think of. Long putters, short putters, standard grip, left hand low and for about ten years I even putted side saddle like Sam Snead. My shed is filled with so many putters, it's hard to even count them. If I had confidence, it was fleeting at best. A few things helped me gain confidence over the last several years. I found a left-hand low putting grip that finally felt comfortable. I established a repeatable putting routine that helped me feel more confident of the line and pace. I got fitted for a putter that matched my existing stroke (versus changing my stroke to match a putter). COVID actually impacted my confidence as well. At the onset of COVID I got a 10 foot practice green and set it up in our spare bedroom. With all the lockdowns, it gave me more time practicing the length of putts that drives golfers with my handicap crazy. All the practice helped me establish a consistent, repeatable stroke. Finally, a series of injuries forced me to have a better short game and putter. I couldn't reach even short par 4's in regulation so to "survive" I had to become a better putter. Finally, I made the investment on the putter matching my fitting specifications. My latest putter addition has made all the difference in the world as far as confidence. It's been in play for almost a month now. The data suggests that it's a good investment which pulled in the above-mentioned things that contributed to the new gained confidence. Now, I stand over a putt knowing if I aim it in the correct direction, I'll make the putt. I can truly say, I've never had this feeling for a prolonged period before. The good news is the data suggests this confidence is well justified. In 2022 (old putters), I averaged over 28 putts a round, 69 holes between three putts and 0.84 shots gained against my handicap peers. I was somewhat confident when I stepped up to a putt. With the new putter in 2023, I'm averaging 26.6 putts per round, 216 holes between three putts and 2.91 strokes gained on my handicap peers. Today, I my bad wood and iron play was offset by this putting line: 22 putts, 97 ft. of putts made, I made all my putts from 0-3 ft, 3-6 ft. 6-9 ft., two of three 9-12 ft. and two of four from 12-16 ft. I can only hope that this ride of confidence continues deeper into 2023 and beyond! tony@CIC, seemoreputters, Christof and 1 other 4 Quote Ping G430 Max driver 10.5 degrees with an Alta Quick45 gram senior shaft Callaway Epic 3 wood, Project X Evenflow Green 45 gram senior shaft Callaway GBB Epic Heavenwood, with a Mitsubishi Diamana 50 gram senior shaft Ping G 20.5 degree 7 wood, with a stock Alta 65 gram senior shaft Ping G 26 degree hybrid, stock Alta 65 gram senior shaft Callaway Paradym X irons, 7-AW with Aldila Ascent Blue 50 graphite shafts Edison wedges: 50, 55 and 60 degree, KBS Tour Graphite A flex shafts Putters: L.A.B. Direct Force 2.1 putter, 34.5" long, 67 degrees lie MSG Tester: Shot Scope LX+ Rangefinder MGS Tester: Callaway Paradym X Irons MSG Tester: Titleist Long Game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MNUte Posted February 20, 2023 Share Posted February 20, 2023 On 1/23/2023 at 7:39 AM, seemoreputters said: Do you feel as if you are ever comfortable standing over a putt? Do you have a confident feeling all the time, some of the time or never? What is it that gets you to that comfort level if it is great? It is amazing how much better one can putt when feeling comfortable over every putt. The confidence grows in the putting stroke when this happens. Appreciate your thoughts and input. Have a clear and consistent plan/routine. Putting and chipping are the areas of my game where I'm the most confident because they're the areas I feel most consistent. I think about my line and plan behind the ball while I'm doing my pre-chip/putt routine and the moment I step over the ball, I stop thinking/worrying and just commit to that plan no matter what. That way, even if I mess it up, I don't get down on myself since I can still say either: 1) I executed the plan perfectly, it was just a dumb plan that time ; 2) The plan was perfect, I just didn't execute it well enough; or 3) "well shoot, that's unlucky." tony@CIC, Jim Shaw and seemoreputters 3 Quote Rag tag bag, but it does the job. Taylormade R1 driver. Ping G400 3 wood. Cleveland Halo Launcher 3 hybrid. Cleveland CBX launcher irons (5-PW). Assorted wedges (48, 52, 58). Odyssey White Hot Pro 2.0 putter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GolfSpy_APH Posted February 20, 2023 Share Posted February 20, 2023 100% Confidence. Without a doubt and unquestionably I have a stupid amount of confidence putting. It is the strongest part of my game and after a little experiment with a putter I had once really liked in shops I have gone back to my go to and was just wow. No matter the greens, the speed or conditions I have an annoying amount of confidence putting. All to say I am super comfortable standing over a putt. Long or short, for bogey, double or eagle or really whatever. I love the art of putting and am able to see it in order to get myself super comfortable standing over the putt and not second guessing any of it. chisag and Jim Shaw 1 1 Quote as of Oct 5, 2024 (Past WITB) Driver: GT2 with Graphite Design AD CQ - check out the Driver Shootout! Wood: GT2 with Graphite Design AD CQ shaft (still love my Cobra F7's) Irons: T Series - T200 5 Iron T150 6-9 Iron Wedge: Toura Golf - A Spec 53,57 or SM10 45,49,53,57 degree wedges Putter: LINK! Full putter shootout incoming Balls: Vice Pro Plus Drip (Blue/Orange) Golf Bag: Ghost Anyday 5.0 Golf bag - Maverick colorway with MGS Logo Other: Vortex Anarch Rangefinder, searching for electric cart, Red Rooster The Root Glove and more Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TylorJudd Posted February 21, 2023 Share Posted February 21, 2023 I must say after getting my new 2ball Ten, which fits more into my stroke, it has increased significantly. I just need the greens to be cut down a bit here GolfSpy TCB 1 Quote I like golf. You should like golf. If life is tough, play more golf! Callaway Paradym Triple Diamond 10.5, Graphite Design Tour AD-MJ 6x Titleist TSr3 18 Degree, Graphite Design Tour Ad-DI 7x Takomo 301CB's, KBS Tours 120S Vokey SM8 48 10F, 52 08F, 56 08M, 60 08M Odyssey O-Works Jailbird Mini, Versa Scheme, 17" Fatso 3.0 Grip, 40" Jazz Tacoma Cart Bag Titleist Pro V1x Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GolfSpy TCB Posted February 21, 2023 Share Posted February 21, 2023 6 minutes ago, TylorJudd said: I must say after getting my new 2ball Ten, which fits more into my stroke, it has increased significantly. I just need the greens to be cut down a bit here The 2 ball Ten is my favorite mallet... though the DF2.1 is giving it a run (but would you call that a mallet??? ). The 2B10 is in my bag at the moment. Quote Titleist TSR3 9* (A2 setting) Driver - Graphite Design Tour AD UB-5 R1 Titleist TSR2+ 3 Wood - Graphite Design Tour AD UB-5 R1 Srixon ZX 5W Callaway Paradym 4-PW Titleist Vokey SM9 50-08, 54-10 & 58-08 Scotty Cameron Super Select Newport 2.5 2023 Titleist ProV1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TylorJudd Posted February 21, 2023 Share Posted February 21, 2023 18 minutes ago, Golfspy_TCB said: The 2 ball Ten is my favorite mallet... though the DF2.1 is giving it a run (but would you call that a mallet??? ). The 2B10 is in my bag at the moment. The DF 2.1 was my runner up to the 2ball 10 as well! I couldn't get my hands on a DF to try and that led to the Odyssey. GolfSpy TCB 1 Quote I like golf. You should like golf. If life is tough, play more golf! Callaway Paradym Triple Diamond 10.5, Graphite Design Tour AD-MJ 6x Titleist TSr3 18 Degree, Graphite Design Tour Ad-DI 7x Takomo 301CB's, KBS Tours 120S Vokey SM8 48 10F, 52 08F, 56 08M, 60 08M Odyssey O-Works Jailbird Mini, Versa Scheme, 17" Fatso 3.0 Grip, 40" Jazz Tacoma Cart Bag Titleist Pro V1x Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Shaw Posted February 21, 2023 Share Posted February 21, 2023 wow, another great thread, reading the comments it intrigues me how confident some of the posts are. I wonder if the amount of confidence we have in our putting isnt the real question when it could possibly be, how many putts for 18 holes do you average? Or how do you measure success in your putting? I consider myself a really good putter, not a great putter but really good, I keep track of how many putts per round I take, and on occasion how many feet of putt I make every round, always in social games and only keep my number of putts in tournament play. I work hardest on my putting and I am aware of "cause and effect" on how my putts roll on their intended line. Quote committed to performance excellence Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cnosil Posted February 21, 2023 Share Posted February 21, 2023 9 hours ago, Jim Shaw said: how many putts for 18 holes do you average? Or how do you measure success in your putting? IMO, by itself number of putts doesn’t really tell you anything. Is 36 good or bad? If I caveat that with I hit every green would that change the perception of 36? Feet of putts made can be deceiving if you make a really long putt since it could artificially inflate the number. I think strokes gained, 3 putt avoidance, and putts missed inside of 3 feet are better measures of putting success. DaveP043 and Jim Shaw 1 1 Quote Driver: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven Fairway: Paradym AI Smoke Max HL 16.5* w/MCA TENSEI AV Series Blue Hybrids: 915H 21* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype 915H 24* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype Irons: TR20V 6-11 w/Vizard TR20-85 Graphite Wedge: 54/12D, 60/8M w/Accra iWedge 90 Graphite Putter: Render w/VA Composites Baddazz Backup Putters: Sacks Parente MC 3 Stripe, Milled Collection RSX 2 Member: MGS Hitsquad since 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Shaw Posted February 21, 2023 Share Posted February 21, 2023 2 hours ago, cnosil said: IMO, by itself number of putts doesn’t really tell you anything. Is 36 good or bad? If I caveat that with I hit every green would that change the perception of 36? Feet of putts made can be deceiving if you make a really long putt since it could artificially inflate the number. I think strokes gained, 3 putt avoidance, and putts missed inside of 3 feet are better measures of putting success. In my experience, every great round I have had my putt numbers are in the mid to low 20's so that is what drives me to put putting at the top of my "must be good list" how do you measure "strokes gained putting" Quote committed to performance excellence Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cnosil Posted February 21, 2023 Share Posted February 21, 2023 23 minutes ago, Jim Shaw said: In my experience, every great round I have had my putt numbers are in the mid to low 20's so that is what drives me to put putting at the top of my "must be good list" how do you measure "strokes gained putting" I am not sure what you consider a great round, but I would think low to mid 20s count in putting is probably related more to good approach shots or really terrible approach shots and good short game shots that put you into makable range. Like i said, I will take 36 putts and 18 greens hit and consider that a great round because I just shot even par. If I miss all 18 greens and have 28 putts I probably have a short game or putting problem so I’d need to know more about those metrics. I just don’t see how putt count without some other qualifying information can tell you anything about your putting ability. How do you separate the number of putts from other aspects of your game to ensure you are only measuring putting ability? I currently use shotscope to measure my strokes gained. It there are various other free tools available online that you can find with a quick google search. Jim Shaw and MNUte 1 1 Quote Driver: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven Fairway: Paradym AI Smoke Max HL 16.5* w/MCA TENSEI AV Series Blue Hybrids: 915H 21* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype 915H 24* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype Irons: TR20V 6-11 w/Vizard TR20-85 Graphite Wedge: 54/12D, 60/8M w/Accra iWedge 90 Graphite Putter: Render w/VA Composites Baddazz Backup Putters: Sacks Parente MC 3 Stripe, Milled Collection RSX 2 Member: MGS Hitsquad since 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chisag Posted February 21, 2023 Share Posted February 21, 2023 3 minutes ago, Jim Shaw said: In my experience, every great round I have had my putt numbers are in the mid to low 20's so that is what drives me to put putting at the top of my "must be good list" how do you measure "strokes gained putting" ... I get it Jim, and it is a stat some find useful. I am just not one of them. Kinda like a QB having a 71% completion rate one game and a 54% the next. Digging into why those numbers happened we see the 71% with no sacks, zero pressures and only 2 hurries. The 54% happened with 4 sacks, 7 pressures and 5 hurries. In my opinion the 71% and 54% stat is useless. ... For me, in the case you mentioned it is quite obvious when I go low I putt well. But when I struggle I usually putt well too. I am not putting on Tour caliber greens and a perfect example is yesterday I had a 6 foot birdie putt that broke about 4 inches. I read it perfectly and had enough speed to roll a foot past the hole if I missed then watched to break 4 inches and then 6" from the hole slide off the little volcano to the right, away from the break because of the combination of not using a plate to pull the cut and golfers stepping right beside the hole to pull out their ball. For me the stat of a missed putt doesn't help because I did everything as well as possible and the ball just didn't fall. Conversely have a putt total in the 20's can mean a low score or I missed too many greens. ... The point being as a very good putter I know when I make a bad read or didn't hit the putt as well as I wanted and a stat isn't gonna help me. Ymmv of course ... tony@CIC, Londo, cnosil and 2 others 5 Quote Driver: Qi10 10.5* ... AutoFlex Dream 7 SF405 Fairway: Qi10 5 wood ... Kai'Li Blue 70r Hybrids: G430 Hybrid 22*... Alta Hy70r Irons: P770 5-pw ... Steelfiber i80r TP UDi 4 ... Steelfiber i80r Wedges: MG3 46*/50*/54* MG4 58* ... Steelfiber i95r Putter: Custom 5.1 (no alignment) 33" Ball: '24 TP5x/Maxfli Tour X Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Shaw Posted February 21, 2023 Share Posted February 21, 2023 1 minute ago, cnosil said: I am not sure what you consider a great round, but I would think low to mid 20s count in putting is probably related more to good approach shots or really terrible approach shots and good short game shots that put you into makable range. Like i said, I will take 36 putts and 18 greens hit and consider that a great round because I just shot even par. If I miss all 18 greens and have 28 putts I probably have a short game or putting problem so I’d need to know more about those metrics. I just don’t see how putt count without some other qualifying information can tell you anything about your putting ability. I currently use shotscope to measure my strokes gained. It there are various other free tools available online that you can find with a quick google search. I shot 66 in the final round of a senior tournament to win by 3, had 24 putts. I suppose it depends on your skill level. I am still intrigued on "strokes gained" isn't that measured against a "field" of players? Or are you saying it is measured by 36 putts being the standard and if you have 34 then you "gained" 2 strokes? tony@CIC 1 Quote committed to performance excellence Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Shaw Posted February 21, 2023 Share Posted February 21, 2023 7 minutes ago, chisag said: ... I get it Jim, and it is a stat some find useful. I am just not one of them. Kinda like a QB having a 71% completion rate one game and a 54% the next. Digging into why those numbers happened we see the 71% with no sacks, zero pressures and only 2 hurries. The 54% happened with 4 sacks, 7 pressures and 5 hurries. In my opinion the 71% and 54% stat is useless. ... For me, in the case you mentioned it is quite obvious when I go low I putt well. But when I struggle I usually putt well too. I am not putting on Tour caliber greens and a perfect example is yesterday I had a 6 foot birdie putt that broke about 4 inches. I read it perfectly and had enough speed to roll a foot past the hole if I missed then watched to break 4 inches and then 6" from the hole slide off the little volcano to the right, away from the break because of the combination of not using a plate to pull the cut and golfers stepping right beside the hole to pull out their ball. For me the stat of a missed putt doesn't help because I did everything as well as possible and the ball just didn't fall. Conversely have a putt total in the 20's can mean a low score or I missed too many greens. ... The point being as a very good putter I know when I make a bad read or didn't hit the putt as well as I wanted and a stat isn't gonna help me. Ymmv of course ... I dont play on tour caliber greens either so I know what you mean, we have the same issues with greens crew not flattening the area around a pin hole, In social play and practice I focus on hitting my intended line and speed, mostly that is all I can get feedback from, some go in some don't but I can take solace from the fact that I delivered what I had planned. My coach and I started measuring stats about 5 years ago and most of the measurements vary from round to round but mostly, for me anyway, anything under 30 putts delivers a good score. Also as I have mentioned before I really enjoy following the players on the leaderboard on TV and noticing that making those important putts, some long some medium some short, seem to be the turning point of winning or not. chisag and tony@CIC 2 Quote committed to performance excellence Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cnosil Posted February 21, 2023 Share Posted February 21, 2023 32 minutes ago, Jim Shaw said: I shot 66 in the final round of a senior tournament to win by 3, had 24 putts. I suppose it depends on your skill level. I am still intrigued on "strokes gained" isn't that measured against a "field" of players? Or are you saying it is measured by 36 putts being the standard and if you have 34 then you "gained" 2 strokes? 66 is a great round and 24 putts seems like a good number. In that round, how do you know you didn’t have a 3 putt or miss a couple of 3 footers to offset the longer putts you statistically shouldn’t make? You keep a lot of stats; is number of putts all you keep for putting? Oh you mean how strokes gained is computed. What you see on tour is a comparison against the current field. Systems like shotscope are calculated based on gathered data so you could compare against a tour player or against 10 handicappers. A round I played a couple of weeks ago I had 32 putts, my strokes gained against a tour pro was +2.17 which means that based on the distances I had for my putts I putts 2 strokes better than a tour pro would average from those same distances. You can also measure stroke gained for driving, approach, and short game to help assess where you need to investigate for improvement. Jim Shaw and tony@CIC 2 Quote Driver: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven Fairway: Paradym AI Smoke Max HL 16.5* w/MCA TENSEI AV Series Blue Hybrids: 915H 21* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype 915H 24* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype Irons: TR20V 6-11 w/Vizard TR20-85 Graphite Wedge: 54/12D, 60/8M w/Accra iWedge 90 Graphite Putter: Render w/VA Composites Baddazz Backup Putters: Sacks Parente MC 3 Stripe, Milled Collection RSX 2 Member: MGS Hitsquad since 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chisag Posted February 21, 2023 Share Posted February 21, 2023 13 minutes ago, Jim Shaw said: I dont play on tour caliber greens either so I know what you mean, we have the same issues with greens crew not flattening the area around a pin hole, In social play and practice I focus on hitting my intended line and speed, mostly that is all I can get feedback from, some go in some don't but I can take solace from the fact that I delivered what I had planned. My coach and I started measuring stats about 5 years ago and most of the measurements vary from round to round but mostly, for me anyway, anything under 30 putts delivers a good score. ... I know lots follow and enjoy stats, I have just never found them useful. I know my strengths and weaknesses and for me stats only confirm what I already know. The one exception and it is a big one, is Mark Broadie's stat that everyone will do better hitting the ball as close to the green as possible instead of laying up to a yardage. Obviously that is within reason as severe trouble means choosing a club that won't reach it, but it is the one stat that changing my appoarch actually had an impact on my scores. It also improved my short game under pressure because I was doing it more often. Kenny B, tony@CIC, cnosil and 1 other 4 Quote Driver: Qi10 10.5* ... AutoFlex Dream 7 SF405 Fairway: Qi10 5 wood ... Kai'Li Blue 70r Hybrids: G430 Hybrid 22*... Alta Hy70r Irons: P770 5-pw ... Steelfiber i80r TP UDi 4 ... Steelfiber i80r Wedges: MG3 46*/50*/54* MG4 58* ... Steelfiber i95r Putter: Custom 5.1 (no alignment) 33" Ball: '24 TP5x/Maxfli Tour X Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cnosil Posted February 21, 2023 Share Posted February 21, 2023 26 minutes ago, Jim Shaw said: My coach and I started measuring stats about 5 years ago and most of the measurements vary from round to round but mostly, for me anyway, anything under 30 putts delivers a good score. I guess that with 5 years of stats, you are looking at how your stats are trending over time so; as an example, you are looking at both putts and GIR together to see if they are changing and not a focus on round by round evaluation. Do you just keep number of putts or do you also track all you put distances so you can see and evaluate make rates? tony@CIC and Jim Shaw 2 Quote Driver: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven Fairway: Paradym AI Smoke Max HL 16.5* w/MCA TENSEI AV Series Blue Hybrids: 915H 21* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype 915H 24* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype Irons: TR20V 6-11 w/Vizard TR20-85 Graphite Wedge: 54/12D, 60/8M w/Accra iWedge 90 Graphite Putter: Render w/VA Composites Baddazz Backup Putters: Sacks Parente MC 3 Stripe, Milled Collection RSX 2 Member: MGS Hitsquad since 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveP043 Posted February 21, 2023 Share Posted February 21, 2023 1 hour ago, Jim Shaw said: In my experience, every great round I have had my putt numbers are in the mid to low 20's so that is what drives me to put putting at the top of my "must be good list" how do you measure "strokes gained putting" 40 minutes ago, Jim Shaw said: I shot 66 in the final round of a senior tournament to win by 3, had 24 putts. I suppose it depends on your skill level. I am still intrigued on "strokes gained" isn't that measured against a "field" of players? Or are you saying it is measured by 36 putts being the standard and if you have 34 then you "gained" 2 strokes? "Strokes Gained" is a metric that takes into account the length of your first putt, as well as the number of putts you take, and compares it against some standard. One "standard" is based on Mark Broadie's work with statistics from tour professionals. As an example, from 8 feet, a pro will make about 50% of his putts, and never 3-putt. The "standard" for an 8-footer is 1.5 strokes. If you 1-putt, you GAIN0.5 strokes, if you 2-putt you LOSE 0.5 strokes. There are some on-line calculators, here's one: https://www.golfrankingstats.com/strokes-gained-calculator/ That one allows you to enter your handicap to compare against similar players. Total putts isn't a great indicator of putting performance, chances are on your 24-putt day you had a LOT of first putts from inside 10 feet, and a pretty fair percentage inside 5-feet, either with good approach play or good short game shots. If you hit a 100-yard wedge to 4 feet and make a putt, you didn't do anything special putting, and the Strokes Gained analysis recognizes that. Similarly, if you hit an approach to 60 feet from the hole and 3-putt, that isn't really an awful job of putting. You might want to try it for a few rounds, just step off your first putt, and record the total putts for the hole. cnosil, Jim Shaw, Londo and 1 other 4 Quote Irons Titleist T200, AMT Red stiff Rogue SubZero, GD YS-Six X T22 54 and 58 wedges 7-wood 5-wood B60 G5i putter Right handed Reston, Virginia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Shaw Posted February 21, 2023 Share Posted February 21, 2023 5 minutes ago, DaveP043 said: "Strokes Gained" is a metric that takes into account the length of your first putt, as well as the number of putts you take, and compares it against some standard. One "standard" is based on Mark Broadie's work with statistics from tour professionals. As an example, from 8 feet, a pro will make about 50% of his putts, and never 3-putt. The "standard" for an 8-footer is 1.5 strokes. If you 1-putt, you GAIN0.5 strokes, if you 2-putt you LOSE 0.5 strokes. There are some on-line calculators, here's one: https://www.golfrankingstats.com/strokes-gained-calculator/ That one allows you to enter your handicap to compare against similar players. Total putts isn't a great indicator of putting performance, chances are on your 24-putt day you had a LOT of first putts from inside 10 feet, and a pretty fair percentage inside 5-feet, either with good approach play or good short game shots. If you hit a 100-yard wedge to 4 feet and make a putt, you didn't do anything special putting, and the Strokes Gained analysis recognizes that. Similarly, if you hit an approach to 60 feet from the hole and 3-putt, that isn't really an awful job of putting. You might want to try it for a few rounds, just step off your first putt, and record the total putts for the hole. thanks, I will try it tony@CIC 1 Quote committed to performance excellence Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Shaw Posted February 21, 2023 Share Posted February 21, 2023 12 minutes ago, cnosil said: I guess that with 5 years of stats, you are looking at how your stats are trending over time so; as an example, you are looking at both putts and GIR together to see if they are changing and not a focus on round by round evaluation. Do you just keep number of putts or do you also track all you put distances so you can see and evaluate make rates? on our "golf canada" app, there is a spot where you can enter all those numbers so makes it quite accessible. I was keeping track of putt distances and was averaging about 70 feet per round, rarely did I go over 100 feet which I hear is a good day of putting for the professionals on TV. I will admit I got tired of putting down "1 foot" measurements when I would just miss a putt and tap in lol... tony@CIC 1 Quote committed to performance excellence Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Shaw Posted February 21, 2023 Share Posted February 21, 2023 26 minutes ago, chisag said: ... I know lots follow and enjoy stats, I have just never found them useful. I know my strengths and weaknesses and for me stats only confirm what I already know. The one exception and it is a big one, is Mark Broadie's stat that everyone will do better hitting the ball as close to the green as possible instead of laying up to a yardage. Obviously that is within reason as severe trouble means choosing a club that won't reach it, but it is the one stat that changing my appoarch actually had an impact on my scores. It also improved my short game under pressure because I was doing it more often. in my golf journey stats are very new to me as well. When I decided to commit to being the best I could be in my retirement years my coach said "without measuring how are you going to know what to work on?" good question I suppose but like you I pretty much know where my area of opportunity is. I think I posted the "everyone will do better hitting the ball as close to the green as possible instead of laying up to a yardage" quote, I heard in on XM radio on Hank Haney's old show when he was ripping Rory for laying up on a shot. Hanks said it was proven through shot link exactly what you said, anyway i started doing that and it has helped for sure, also I had to really learn 40-60 yard shots consistently. DaveP043 and tony@CIC 2 Quote committed to performance excellence Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.