Pace of play....is "slower" that big of a deal?

[null]

I will respectfully disagree. Depending on the type of course, you just eliminated over half the golfing population. Apparently, you think all golfers out on the course should be highly skilled single digit players. If you are playing at a private CC, maybe you have the luxury of a foursome playing in 4 hours. It's rare for a foursome at a muni to play in 4 hours unless they are good players getting out early in the day.

Skill has NOTHING to do with how long it takes to play. I've played in under 4 hours with 2 guys that didn't break 90 and another that didn't break 100. And we didn't rush.

 

In fact, some of the slowest players I've encountered are single digit cappers

[DaveP043]

It is should not take more than 4 hours for any foursome to play 18. The fact that 4.5 hours is becoming acceptable at many clubs is just brutal.

I'm going to disagree with this as well.  In my opinion, any time you apply a single "pace of play standard" to all situations, you've made a mistake.  As I said, many places in the UK would consider 4 hours to be insanely slow.  At many really challenging courses, 4-1/2 hours actually IS appropriate.  I still think its gets down to two factors:

Play efficiently

Be considerate of the other golfers on the course.

The OP hasn't said what kind of overall duration he feels comfortable with, and that might be a factor in my answer.  If he feels like he has to rush to play in under 5 hours, he needs to find a way to play faster, or build his own golf course (mostly teasing here).  If he routinely plays in 4 hours in a fourball, and is irked by "speed golfers", I'm probably on his side.

[TheWahoo]

I will respectfully disagree.  Depending on the type of course, you just eliminated over half the golfing population.  Apparently, you think all golfers out on the course should be highly skilled single digit players.  If you are playing at a private CC, maybe you have the luxury of a foursome playing in 4 hours.  It's rare for a foursome at a muni to play in 4 hours unless they are good players getting out early in the day.  

I understand your point, especially when playing at a muni.  There have been numerous discussions about growing the game.   Perhaps, a bit of courtesy and understanding for the beginning and less skilled golfer may go some ways in that regard.  Again, especially at a muni, because that is where they mostly are.  Remember all of us were beginners at some point.  Maybe sometimes, those highly skilled golfers don't realize that they can hold things up on a Par 5 while waiting for the green to clear to hit a second shot.  

[Rusty1885]

It takes about 2.5 hours to walk my hilly home course, a lot less riding. Muni riding could take 4-4.5 hours. Which is a good pace. One of the local course I stopped playing can be so backed up. My last round there I drove off on the 8th tee it was at 2 hour 45 mins, haven't been back since. This place allow 5some walkers. No, no.

[Kenny B]

I play fast but I play at sun up. When I don't I'm fine with anything under the 15 min/hole 4 1/2 hour mark. Nothing wrong with taking your time but don't hold others up. The pet peeves are-

 

1. Ignorant foursome that won't let a twosome go through. I have let people have it for this. Not hitting into them but yelling from the tee.

 

2. The overly serious 20 handicap that HAS to hole everything. I joined a "fun" league once and it averaged 6 hours per round. NOT FUN and I didn't last long.

 

Courses could fix this if they stopped tee times every 7 minutes.

 

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I agree about slow foursomes.  However, I wouldn't call them ignorant.  Yes, they may not be aware of golf etiquette.  I think some people consider that paying greens fees is "buying" that tee time.  If the course is full and they are a hole behind, it's the course marshal's job to move them along.  Yelling at them can only cause conflict, and I am glad you don't hit into them.  If there is no marshal, then I would suggest approaching them and asking politely if they would let your group play through.

 

During the week I walk with three guys, two of which are not very speedy, just deliberate.  I try to keep them moving along as quick as possible; I probably play my turn a little faster than I should just to keep them moving.  However, a walking foursome will NEVER be as fast a twosome in a cart.  If there is a twosome behind us waiting on several holes and we can see that there is no one behind them, we will let them play through.  If we see that there is another twosome in a cart behind them, we don't.  They should pair up. We have had twosomes jump us to the next hole rather than joining up; I don't understand that, but that's their choice.  This only happens during the week when fewer golfers are on the course, but why should we stop and let twosome after twosome play through us?  That would make our 4:00 - 4:15 walking round into a 4:30 - 5:00 round if we let every twosome or single play through.  

[Kenny B]

It takes about 2.5 hours to walk my hilly home course, a lot less riding. Muni riding could take 4-4.5 hours. Which is a good pace. One of the local course I stopped playing can be so backed up. My last round there I drove off on the 8th tee it was at 2 hour 45 mins, haven't been back since. This place allow 5some walkers. No, no.

My course is a muni.  Pace of play is pretty good most of the time, however my wife and I do not go out to play in the afternoon on a weekend.  We did that a couple of weeks ago because we had work to do in the morning.  We had a tee time at 3:15 as a twosome.  We left the course at 6:05 after playing nine holes.  It was a nice day and fun to just get out, but we spent more time waiting than we did actually playing.

[DiscipleofPenick]

I agree about slow foursomes. However, I wouldn't call them ignorant. Yes, they may not be aware of golf etiquette. I think some people consider that paying greens fees is "buying" that tee time. If the course is full and they are a hole behind, it's the course marshal's job to move them along. Yelling at them can only cause conflict, and I am glad you don't hit into them. If there is no marshal, then I would suggest approaching them and asking politely if they would let your group play through.

 

During the week I walk with three guys, two of which are not very speedy, just deliberate. I try to keep them moving along as quick as possible; I probably play my turn a little faster than I should just to keep them moving. However, a walking foursome will NEVER be as fast a twosome in a cart. If there is a twosome behind us waiting on several holes and we can see that there is no one behind them, we will let them play through. If we see that there is another twosome in a cart behind them, we don't. They should pair up. We have had twosomes jump us to the next hole rather than joining up; I don't understand that, but that's their choice. This only happens during the week when fewer golfers are on the course, but why should we stop and let twosome after twosome play through us? That would make our 4:00 - 4:15 walking round into a 4:30 - 5:00 round if we let every twosome or single play through.

If it's not ignorance it sure is selfishness and arrogance. It's once I get to the third teebox and they still haven't let me and/or my partner go through then they get an earful. I've been polite for close to 45 minutes at that point. Some groups think they bought that tee time and can play at their own pace. Fine play at your own pace but don't make everyone else suffer because you want to dicker in the fairways and have to hole every putt for double b/c you gotta win that 10 cents from your buddy.

 

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[Big money]

Maybe I'm odd man out.But,i play my best golf quick and only thought is score.Been lucky too have been paired with a few like me.Its just how life is for some.Heck,if they told me you can't play in under 4 hours I would quit and find new hobby.

[chershey]

I'm a fairly quick player, as my preshot routine doesn't take long (a friend and I have played 18 holes in 2 hours before) but I never complain when the group in front of me is keeping to a 4 hour pace. I do sometimes get frustrated when the group in front of us isn't playing intelligently or considerate. For instance, all 4 golfers shouldn't be helping a person look for their ball in the woods when their tee shot is around the same distance out and they haven't hit their shot yet. Hit your shot and then go help them look. When your 40 yards in front of the green and can't drive the cart there, have your playing partner drop you off with as many clubs (wedges, putters, etc.) as you think you'll need so you can walk rest of the hole up to the green and they can take the cart up to the green and be ready for their putt. When you finish a hole don't sit down in the cart and start adding up the score next to the green. Head to the next tee box and take care of that stuff. It's all about being considerate of the people behind you waiting to hit. Trust me when I say that those of us behind you are fighting every urge to hit into you when this continues to happen during the round.

[Reesedw]

I believe in Ready Golf.. that does not mean rushing.. I don't mind waiting a little here a little there.. I would say I play at a reasonable pace. Faster when riding but not racing.. 

 

I do not want to wait on every other shot on every hole. I have bad shots and i have great shots.. I think it all evens out. If we are all conscious of of whats going on and let faster players through as we can then we will all have a more enjoyable time on the course.. 

[Kanoito]

Kanoito, may I please inquire, if you have better things to do then why play? Also, if you know you want to spend time with family (I can appreciate it as I have wife and two young children) don't you budget in the time? For example if you wanted to play on a Saturday mid-morning wouldn't you budget in several hours and express to them that you're gonna be gone?

 

I guess your logic is where I don't understand the whole point of "I've got better things to do", because if I feel I have better or more important things to do then I do them. I don't go to the golf course to play and enjoy several hours with the mindset of how quickly can I get done cause I'd rather be somewhere else.

 

I'm hoping you can enlighten me more on your position. Thanks.

 

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Sure thing! See... I love golf, we all love golf. But it all comes down to balance. I like to distribute my hobbies and duties evenly...

 

Do I want to play 24 hours of golf? Probably not. Do I want to spend 12 hours mowing the lawn or buying groceries? Hell no. And certainly not spend 24 hours glued to a family member, no matter how much you love them.

 

Everybody needs a break and their own space. For us, it's golf. For the wife shopping, etc.

 

So why should I spend 5 hours playing the same game if I can do so in 3.5?

I mean, the time spent on the course is not proportional to the level of enjoyment... at least not for me. The extra 2 hours do not contribute to my enjoyment of the game.

 

I think your position is more like all-or-nothing: you either spend the whole day on the course or you don't go at all.

 

But I want and certainly can do both. Enjoyment and "better things to do" are not mutually exclusive.

 

Hope that was understandable (not taking a stab at you, but because I'm typing on a phone, sometimes ideas get lost LOL)

 

Cheers!

[Jmikecpa]

I am a fast player but not because I want off the course but because I have other things that I want to do in my day. I don't blaze around the course but could easily walk 18 with a caddy at my club in 3 hours. Heck give me a cart as a single and I will be done in well under two. Another point is my wife and kids really appreciate when I can get off the course in three or so hours. More family time for them and that is just as enjoyable to me as playing golf.

 

 

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[DaveP043]

Kanoito, may I please inquire, if you have better things to do then why play? ........

I'm hoping you can enlighten me more on your position. Thanks.

 

 

Hope that was understandable.

 

Cheers!

Seems a reasonable explanation, with no vitriol, and pace of play discussions often get a little contentious.  That's one reason I enjoy MGS, conversations rarely get out of hand.

For @burkmi08242012, could I ask what type of pace or duration do you feel comfortable with?  I've known one or two guys in my life who felt uncomfortable if they were "forced" to play in under 5 hours.  In my book, that's simply too long unless you're alone on the course.  I've also seen and known people who think they have a right to zoom around in 3 hours, and anyone slower should simply get out of their way.  Those guys are totally unreasonable too, unless they too are alone on the course.  Where do you feel most comfortable?

[Kor.A.Door]

It's simple and easy to play faster, use the old Nike slogan, Just do it.

[Rusty1885]

I keep a few birdie balls in my bag, on a long wait between shots I'd hit them. I'd especially hit one that would replicate my next shot right before my real shot. Kill time.

 

 

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[hckymeyer]

Wed night after league we went back out as an 8-some and played 4 on 4 scramble.  We finished the nine in 1hr 20mins.  As an 8-some.

[Kenny B]

My wife and I were playing as a twosome one evening this spring, and another couple we know were playing behind us with another person.  On the 4th hole we joined up as a fivesome so we didn't have to wait on the foursome in front of us.  As a fivesome we still had to wait on the foursome in front on a few holes.  Play gets slow on munis in the late afternoons.

[Kanoito]

I am a fast player but not because I want off the course but because I have other things that I want to do in my day. I don't blaze around the course but could easily walk 18 with a caddy at my club in 3 hours. Heck give me a cart as a single and I will be done in well under two. Another point is my wife and kids really appreciate when I can get off the course in three or so hours. More family time for them and that is just as enjoyable to me as playing golf.

 

 

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Word, brother.

[10shot]

Well, pro's play the way they do Because their better than us, hummmm

 

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[revkev]

I'm glad that you enjoy your time at the course. Please be sure to be in a group behind me.

 

There are guys that I play with who take a good deal of time to play. I live with it but two things always happen. My wife is not happy and neither is my back.

 

Fuzzy Zoeller and Greg Norman took under three to finish a US Open playoff, walking. I always write three hours for 18 as the goal knowing that three and a half is realistic and reasonable for any group. At my club if your foursome takes more than four and you hold others up you are blacked out of weekend mornings for a month.

 

I would certainly say that money and time are two big factors that keep people away from playing golf.

 

 

 

 

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[Peterpc2828]

I'm glad that you enjoy your time at the course. Please be sure to be in a group behind me.

 

There are guys that I play with who take a good deal of time to play. I live with it but two things always happen. My wife is not happy and neither is my back.

 

Fuzzy Zoeller and Greg Norman took under three to finish a US Open playoff, walking. I always write three hours for 18 as the goal knowing that three and a half is realistic and reasonable for any group. At my club if your foursome takes more than four and you hold others up you are blacked out of weekend mornings for a month.

 

I would certainly say that money and time are two big factors that keep people away from playing golf.

 

 

 

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I love the being blocked out for a month on morning weekend tee times! I like to be one of the first few groups out in the morning so I can make it to the beach by 10 or 11am.

[dru_]

Define 'slow'. That's part of the problem to me.  Here is the difference for me at least. When I play 18, I budget 4.5 hours for the round in a 4 some.  However, I really really really struggle when I am waiting on every single shot. I don't mind deliberate, I don't mind stepping away.  

What I mind is 60s reshot routines on every single shot. 

What I mind is 10 minutes looking for the second lost ball on the same hole.

What I mind is a minute walk around the green reading the putt from 10 angles when putting for an 8. on a par 3. 

What I mind is 5 minutes fishing balls out of the pond.

What I mind Is the 3 pee in the woods stop in the last 6 holes.

These are the things that impact pace of play that I care about, and when we start talking 5+ hour rounds?  I'm not playing anymore, because while I do like to relax on the golf course, It cannot be a full day activity. When it starts taking 5+ hours to play the round, and a round of golf becomes a 7 hour investment (travel time, arrive early to go off late), 19th hole. Many younger golfers are't going to play, and when their money leaves, so do our golf courses.

We have to find a balance, and so, yes, your pace of play issues, and mine, do become a problem

[dru_]

I should note, that the group I usually play in, we are mostly 10-20 handicappers, and even we typically finish a round in between 3 and 3.5 hours, and that is usually because we spend 16-18 stacked up behind groups the went off 30 minutes in front of us.

[ole gray]

I can't deal with slow play at all.  It get's on my nerves worst than a non treeing coon hound. After waiting for a slow group to clear the greens, my tempo actually get's too quick.  It's like when it's finally my time to hit, I step up and whack away without taking a few more seconds for my own game. I'm concerned about the people behind my group having to wait too.  If it get's too slow, I pack it up and leave at the turn.  I'm retired so I can come back another day where I can enjoy and not stress over golf.

[mrsmith123]

Seems a reasonable explanation, with no vitriol, and pace of play discussions often get a little contentious. That's one reason I enjoy MGS, conversations rarely get out of hand.

For @burkmi08242012, could I ask what type of pace or duration do you feel comfortable with? I've known one or two guys in my life who felt uncomfortable if they were "forced" to play in under 5 hours. In my book, that's simply too long unless you're alone on the course. I've also seen and known people who think they have a right to zoom around in 3 hours, and anyone slower should simply get out of their way. Those guys are totally unreasonable too, unless they too are alone on the course. Where do you feel most comfortable?

DaveP043, I agree that pace of play can be a touchy subject. I think I've always enjoyed taking time with the guys I'm on the course with. My opinion has always been that too many places have tee times too close together which doesn't help. Anyway, I feel that for 4-players, five hours isn't unreasonable because you're not rushed. I feel like the 15 minutes per hole traditional average doesn't quite fit the bill (just my opinion).

 

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[mrsmith123]

Sure thing! See... I love golf, we all love golf. But it all comes down to balance. I like to distribute my hobbies and duties evenly...

 

Do I want to play 24 hours of golf? Probably not. Do I want to spend 12 hours mowing the lawn or buying groceries? Hell no. And certainly not spend 24 hours glued to a family member, no matter how much you love them.

 

Everybody needs a break and their own space. For us, it's golf. For the wife shopping, etc.

 

So why should I spend 5 hours playing the same game if I can do so in 3.5?

I mean, the time spent on the course is not proportional to the level of enjoyment... at least not for me. The extra 2 hours do not contribute to my enjoyment of the game.

 

I think your position is more like all-or-nothing: you either spend the whole day on the course or you don't go at all.

 

But I want and certainly can do both. Enjoyment and "better things to do" are not mutually exclusive.

 

Hope that was understandable (not taking a stab at you, but because I'm typing on a phone, sometimes ideas get lost LOL)

 

Cheers!

Kanoito, you probably hit the nail on the head for me. I'm very much all or nothing (not just for golf, but a lot of things in my life haha). I've always planned on several factors. Drive time, warm up time, on course time, and after golf social time. Between all that it ends up being 7-8 hours of time (most of the time). Now if I got invited to play a nice track at last minute notice and had to play fast, I will admit that I would make it work lol (for good, bad, or otherwise). If I want to practice, I will budget a couple hours to really dial things in.

 

To each their own with it, we probably all have to agree to disagree when on opposite sides. At least if any of us tee it up together we know ahead lol.

 

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[Eseay32]

There's a difference in slow golf and deliberate golf. Good players can play fast and slow and that's ok. I tend to play quick. Not that I'm trying to get done super quick and not that I play ready golf on tee boxes and on shots but when it's my turn to hit I'm ready to go. I have a routine that I go through but I don't need 3 practice swings where I hit the ground appropriately each time. I've played golf for 20 years now and played high school, college, etc. I don't need practice swings but I'm ok if someone does. The part that bothers me the most is someone who doesn't plan. For example, you are on the front of the green and the hole is on the back and you leave all our clubs on the front and have to go get them or you park your cart away from the hole etc. golf is not slow because of pre shot routines.

 

 

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[DiscipleofPenick]

I caddied at a country club in high school, nearly all walked. Printed in the scorecards was "18 holes is expected to be 3 hours, 30 minutes."

 

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[silver & black]

It seems to me that "slow play" depends on where you play... private or public.

 

My brother and I play almost every Sunday at a local public course. The owner doesn't employ a marshal/ranger anymore. He crowds as many people on as he can in a day. Most times there is only 5 minutes between people teeing off... just enough time to get out of range of the next person/group teeing off. Throughout the round, things usually go awry with one group or another and you are waiting 10 minutes between holes.

 

"Most" of the players out there are not players that can "get around a golf course" efficiently. "Most" of them don't know golf etiquette. It's just what you have to deal with if you play on public courses that are all about bringing in as much revenue in a day as possible. Yes.... it is frustrating!

 

Some of the nicer public courses don't put up with that. They have marshals/rangers that keep you moving, or you move off the course.

 

You guys that play CC's and other private courses have the luxury of b*tching about slow play... and rightly so. Guys like me can b*tch all we want, but it changes nothing.

 

My brother and I just figure our day at the course is just that.... the day. It usually takes us 4 - 4.5 hrs. to play a round, sometimes a little longer. We are capable of playing 18 holes in 3.5 hrs. It just rarely happens.

 

 

[Rusty1885]

It seems to me that "slow play" depends on where you play... private or public.

 

Some of the nicer public courses don't put up with that. They have marshals/rangers that keep you moving, or you move off the course.

 

You guys that play CC's and other private courses have the luxury of b*tching about slow play... and rightly so. Guys like me can b*tch all we want, but it changes nothing.

I actually don't mind the slow(er) play. I enjoy it, as long as it's not too much.

 

Most golfers misunderstand the country club golf, it's not what you think. Unless you really enjoy the men's club experience at your public course cc is not going to appeal to you much.

 

Don't get me wrong, if you want to excel your golf game cc is definitely for you, as you can practice and play til your heart content. The novelty of freedom and playing alone wore off after a few weeks, then it gets to work on you. You are playing the same course multiple times a week. Usually 50% of the cc greens will be on the smaller size, think par 3 executive course.

 

Your buddies is not going to join you every round you play, may be the first couple of months but that's it. I used to play 4-5 rounds a week like a man processed, now with a bit less time I'm playing 2 at my home course and 1 at the muni to keep my sane.

 

I consider Cypress point to be the finest golf course in the world, even I can play there everyday.