PUREing your driver

[LowSwingSpeed]

Does anyone PURE their shafts anymore and does it help.

[Shank Aaron]

I do, more with iron shafts than anything else, but I do a lot of it with my drivers shafts these days. I wound up building my own tools for it rather than buy the stuff, though. 

Edited February 15, 2021 by Shank Aaron

[Vegan_Golfer_PNW]

I’ve always wondered about this too. Does any one know if PXG for example pures sets you get or is it better to take your current clubs somewhere to have pureIng done?

[Popeye64]

The debate on this item will rage on in a lot of places.
From my own experience with finding stable plane of a shaft it certainly makes the shaft feel a bit firmer.
When a shaft is twanged that is out of stable plane it wobbles like crazy, almost immediately. So in my mind I want that shaft as stable as possible. How much that truly effects performance is what gets wildly debated. I don't believe there has been any definitive data one way or the other.
To me it's setting the fine details of a build.

Sent from my SM-G998U using Tapatalk

[RickyBobby_PR]

46 minutes ago, rbsiedsc said:

I’ve always wondered about this too. Does any one know if PXG for example pures sets you get or is it better to take your current clubs somewhere to have pureIng done?

PXG like all brands dont pure their shafts. That would add extra cost to a purchase. If you want a shaft pured then a club builder like TXG, CC and local shops that offer it would be the place to get it done.

As for the topic it’s one that’s been debated on every forum and there’s some that say it’s worth and some that say it’s not. I’ve had two shaft companies tell me it’s not needed.  There’s pros that have it done and there’s pros that dont

[null]

Club builders will always offer it because it’s easy money. It’s pretty much the ‘extended warranty’ of the golf builder world. 
 

Spoiler: the Unpured shaft performed better

[Popeye64]

Club builders will always offer it because it’s easy money. It’s pretty much the ‘extended warranty’ of the golf builder world. 
 
Spoiler: the Unpured shaft performed better

Thats a great analogy

Sent from my SM-G998U using Tapatalk

[null]

26 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

PXG like all brands dont pure their shafts. That would add extra cost to a purchase. If you want a shaft pured then a club builder like TXG, CC and local shops that offer it would be the place to get it done.

As for the topic it’s one that’s been debated on every forum and there’s some that say it’s worth and some that say it’s not. I’ve had two shaft companies tell me it’s not needed.  There’s pros that have it done and there’s pros that dont

Factor in that Dr Sasho Mackenzie did a study and it showed that the results were better with the spine aligned at a 45* angle to neutral rather than neutral like SST Puring does. But even then the improvements were not statistically significant. 
 

[Shank Aaron]

What I planned to type above before being interrupted by work was that this is a contested platform for debate. You have the category of folks who think it's vital to club building, and a category who believe its nothing more than a placebo. I watched the video above and it was extremely informative, I also don't have Matty's ball speed numbers so I searched other tests. What I founds was a coin flip with no definitive conclusion. A hand full of vloggers agree it's essential, another hand full agree it's window dressing to more profits on the back end of a club build. YMMV

 

My take? Well, that's simple. I would do it to every full swing club in my bag.......but not if I had to pay extra for it. 

[Larryd3]

I had my iron shafts pured when TrueSpec built them.  They talked me into it but looking back I’d pass on it due to cost and little or no perceived benefit to me.  I’d spend the money on a good fitting before puring shafts.  

[PMookie]

Too many studies show it’s BS, and to me it’s the same as “dealer pad” on cars. Waste of money.

[Buffly]

9 hours ago, Popeye64 said:

The debate on this item will rage on in a lot of places.
From my own experience with finding stable plane of a shaft it certainly makes the shaft feel a bit firmer.
When a shaft is twanged that is out of stable plane it wobbles like crazy, almost immediately. So in my mind I want that shaft as stable as possible. How much that truly effects performance is what gets wildly debated. I don't believe there has been any definitive data one way or the other.
To me it's setting the fine details of a build.

Sent from my SM-G998U using Tapatalk
 

 

10 hours ago, rbsiedsc said:

I’ve always wondered about this too. Does any one know if PXG for example pures sets you get or is it better to take your current clubs somewhere to have pureIng done?

Tiger Woods has his clubs PURED... That's enough for me to think it's good if you can afford it.

TXG, YouTube channel, has said it is more important on steel shafts because the wall thickness is so much thinner than graphite shafts.

One way to tell if a club has been PURED is that the graphics are not straight in line with the top line. If all the iron shafts have the label in different orientations then you can know it was either spine aligned, PURED, or "twanged" as mentioned by others. There is also a PURED sticker that came with my PURED clubs, and a certificate.

I can say my PURED clubs, I have 2 utility hybrids, are very consistent when swinging and ball flights. I would recommend it.

[PMookie]

6 hours ago, Buffly said:

 

Tiger Woods has his clubs PURED... That's enough for me to think it's good if you can afford it.

TXG, YouTube channel, has said it is more important on steel shafts because the wall thickness is so much thinner than graphite shafts.

One way to tell if a club has been PURED is that the graphics are not straight in line with the top line. If all the iron shafts have the label in different orientations then you can know it was either spine aligned, PURED, or "twanged" as mentioned by others. There is also a PURED sticker that came with my PURED clubs, and a certificate.

I can say my PURED clubs, I have 2 utility hybrids, are very consistent when swinging and ball flights. I would recommend it.

Your comment about Tiger makes me think about how many pros put their name on something and we buy it because they are the spokesperson. Clubs, shoes, socks, gloves, glasses, underwear, alcohol, cigarettes (back in-the-day), etc. Amazing how certain people being a spokesperson will cause us to buy something, even when studies show to the contrary about what the “star” is claiming.

Interesting.

[fixyurdivot]

Truespec offers it as an additional charge.  The fitter kind of left me with the impression that it is a wee bit overkill - especially for the vast majority of players. My thought is that were it really vital to how the shaft and its attachment to a clubhead performs, it would not be an option.  I used to build custom flyrods and proper shaft spline alignment, particularly on multi-piece rods, is vital to its performance.  I never asked folks "so would you like this rod to cast like its designed too or....?"

Now the guy who assembled my new KBS driver shaft did ask what my normal PING adapter shaft setting is.... apparently he aligns the shaft & adapter to optimize something??

[RickyBobby_PR]

32 minutes ago, fixyurdivot said:

Now the guy who assembled my new KBS driver shaft did ask what my normal PING adapter shaft setting is.... apparently he aligns the shaft & adapter to optimize something??

This is done so that the shaft label is down which is the recommended way by shaft companies. So by setting it up that way to start you don’t have the logo somewhere else. Titleist and iirc ping ask this question when placing an order. I don’t recall if that was an option on TM’s site when I ordered my sim max

[fixyurdivot]

1 minute ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

This is done so that the shaft label is down which is the recommended way by shaft companies. So by setting it up that way to start you don’t have the logo somewhere else. Titleist and iirc ping ask this question when placing an order. I don’t recall if that was an option on TM’s site when I ordered my sim max

Makes sense, forgot about that.

[Buffly]

2 hours ago, PMookie said:

Your comment about Tiger makes me think about how many pros put their name on something and we buy it because they are the spokesperson. Clubs, shoes, socks, gloves, glasses, underwear, alcohol, cigarettes (back in-the-day), etc. Amazing how certain people being a spokesperson will cause us to buy something, even when studies show to the contrary about what the “star” is claiming.

Interesting.

It's not just Tiger, and these people are customers, not endorsers:

Abraham Ancer

Dawson Armstrong

Jamie Arnold

Ricky Barnes

Daniel Berger

Wesley Bryan

Sam Burns

Cameron Champ

KJ Choi

Chad Collins

Fred Couples

John Daly

Cameron Davis

Bryson DeChambeau

Roberto Diaz

Jason Dufner

Ernie Els

Julian Etulain

 

Derek Fathauer

Zach Fisher

Rickie Fowler

Brice Garnett

Brian Gay

Lucas Glover

Fabian Gomez

Cody Gribble

Padraig Harrington

Jim Herman

Charley Hoffman

Tom Hoge

Lee Janzen

Dustin Johnson

Sung Kang

Matt Kuchar

Martin Laird

 

Nate Lashley

Danny Lee

Luke List

Will MacKenzie

Hideki Matsuyama

Graeme McDowell

Keith Mitchell

Grayson Murray

Dan Olsen

Ryan Palmer

Rod Pampling

Pat Perez

Kenny Perry

Rod Perry

Paul Peterson

Ted Potter, Jr

Fran Quinn

 

Chez Reavie

Justin Rose

Scottie Scheffler

Adam Schenk

Vijay Singh

Brandt Snedeker

Scott Stallings

Kyle Stanley

Shawn Stefani

Robert Streb

Chris Stroud

Justin Thomas

Martin Trainer

Harold Varner III

Lanny Wadkins

Johnson Wagner

Garrett Willis

Gary Woodland

Tiger Woods

(From SstPure 2019 on tour list http://sstpure.com/pro-players/ )

[null]

That list seems to get smaller and smaller each year. 
 

And I bet if you asked 90% of the guys on the list about their pured shafts they’d have no idea what you’re talking about

[PMookie]

1 hour ago, Buffly said:

It's not just Tiger, and these people are customers, not endorsers:

Abraham Ancer

Dawson Armstrong

Jamie Arnold

Ricky Barnes

Daniel Berger

Wesley Bryan

Sam Burns

Cameron Champ

KJ Choi

Chad Collins

Fred Couples

John Daly

Cameron Davis

Bryson DeChambeau

Roberto Diaz

Jason Dufner

Ernie Els

Julian Etulain

 

Derek Fathauer

Zach Fisher

Rickie Fowler

Brice Garnett

Brian Gay

Lucas Glover

Fabian Gomez

Cody Gribble

Padraig Harrington

Jim Herman

Charley Hoffman

Tom Hoge

Lee Janzen

Dustin Johnson

Sung Kang

Matt Kuchar

Martin Laird

 

Nate Lashley

Danny Lee

Luke List

Will MacKenzie

Hideki Matsuyama

Graeme McDowell

Keith Mitchell

Grayson Murray

Dan Olsen

Ryan Palmer

Rod Pampling

Pat Perez

Kenny Perry

Rod Perry

Paul Peterson

Ted Potter, Jr

Fran Quinn

 

Chez Reavie

Justin Rose

Scottie Scheffler

Adam Schenk

Vijay Singh

Brandt Snedeker

Scott Stallings

Kyle Stanley

Shawn Stefani

Robert Streb

Chris Stroud

Justin Thomas

Martin Trainer

Harold Varner III

Lanny Wadkins

Johnson Wagner

Garrett Willis

Gary Woodland

Tiger Woods

(From SstPure 2019 on tour list http://sstpure.com/pro-players/ )

Here’s the deal. Those guys get this done for free, so they’re not “customers”, and I would be willing to bet that they wouldn’t be able to tell if the shafts they play have been Pured or not. There are hundreds of Pros around the world, and most don’t Pure... 
I can guarantee that an amateur who is handed a shaft and is told that it was Pured would believe it, yet have zero chance, after 100 shots, of being able to identify if it actually had or not. Zero.

I don’t fault you for doing it at all. If you feel that if Tiger endorses it then you should do so as well. Hey, your choice. 

[RickyBobby_PR]

Just now, PMookie said:

Here’s the deal. Those guys get this done for free, and I would be willing to bet that they wouldn’t be able to tell if the shafts they play have been Pured or not. There are hundreds of Pros around the world, and most don’t Pure... 
I can guarantee that an amateur who is handed a shaft and is told that it was Pured would believe it, yet have zero chance, after 100 shots, of being able to identify if it actually had or not. Zero.

I don’t fault you for doing it at all. If you feel that if Tiger endorses it then you should do so as well. Hey, your choice. 

Roger might be the only one that could. I’ve read interviews and heard the reps from TM say he told them his lifts were off by 1/2* and they were all like this guy is high and the specs are fine, but they took them to the machine and sure enough they were 1/2* off. He’s done so with other aspects of a club that has had the club guys shaking their head at what he can feel and how accurate his feedback is

[PMookie]

1 minute ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

Roger might be the only one that could. I’ve read interviews and heard the reps from TM say he told them his lifts were off by 1/2* and they were all like this guy is high and the specs are fine, but they took them to the machine and sure enough they were 1/2* off. He’s done so with other aspects of a club that has had the club guys shaking their head at what he can feel and how accurate his feedback is

Loft? Totally see that. That’s yardage. He’s hit millions of shots. He knows how far his shot should go, its height, spin, etc. But puring is not loft/lie/or length....

[cnosil]

Some people say there is something to flo’ing/PUREing a shaft. Some say there is nothing to it. The cost of $20 a shaft may be cheap to some and deal breakers to others.

Either way I haven’t heard of anyone saying it made their clubs worse. If someone offered to do it to my clubs for free I would do it without question.

I’d love to do a head to head comparison to see if there is any performance benefit.

[PMookie]

4 minutes ago, cnosil said:

Some people say there is something to flo’ing/PUREing a shaft. Some say there is nothing to it. The cost of $20 a shaft may be cheap to some and deal breakers to others.

Either way I haven’t heard of anyone saying it made their clubs worse. If someone offered to do it to my clubs for free I would do it without question.

I’d love to do a head to head comparison to see if there is any performance benefit.

TXG did a video. Joe linked it above. No measurable difference. No study yet has shown “statistical significance”, but I’m sure Pros who have it done for free see it the same way: can’t hurt. I agree with this, but if I’m paying, you gotta prove to me, statistically, that I benefit.

I have had one maker of clubs tell me face-to-face it’s BS, two shaft manufacturers, one shaft reviewer/tester, and three customer service reps from major OEMs all say the same thing. Again, to your point, it doesn’t hurt... Except the pocket book.

[cnosil]

TXG did a video. Joe linked it above. No measurable difference. No study yet has shown “statistical significance”, but I’m sure Pros who have it done for free see it the same way: can’t hurt. I agree with this, but if I’m paying, you gotta prove to me, statistically, that I benefit.
I have had one maker of clubs tell me face-to-face it’s BS, two shaft manufacturers, one shaft reviewer/tester, and three customer service reps from major OEMs all say the same thing. Again, to your point, it doesn’t hurt... Except the pocket book.

I saw the TXG video and I am in the doubter corner, but I’d like to see how it works with someone that struggles with face contact. I want to do my own comparison.

[null]

29 minutes ago, cnosil said:

I saw the TXG video and I am in the doubter corner, but I’d like to see how it works with someone that struggles with face contact. I want to do my own comparison.

Based on what Sasho Mackenzie saw, it might be worse for more inconsistent swingers.  The more the direction of forces on the shaft change throughout the swing, the less  aligning the spin will impact anything. 

[Buffly]

I have heard stories, don't remember where I heard it, about people having a set of irons, but one or two clubs in the bag always gave them trouble when compared to the relativity of their other irons. 

Somewhere in the story something ended up being either out of spec in some fashion that was measurable. It could have been swing weight caused by inconsistent shaft weight on an assembly line. It could have been an aggressive spine that bent weird. The reality was that greater care in assembly to ensure consistency and repeatability was needed. Whether someone pays for spine aligning, FLO, or SST Pure it would seem that greater attention to detail would follow. 

I watched a video recently of a gentleman club builder demonstrating FLO of a shaft. He mentioned that once the Flat Line Oscillation axis was found that the rules of golf state it would be a breach to install the club head so as to create a fade or draw bias. I found it fascinating that assembly of the club is regulated so rigorously for the pros. At the same time, if the USGA sees a possibility for an unfair advantage to how the shaft is installed then I can't ignore that it matters. 

[pineneedlespro]

I want my customers to play their BEST so no excuses on the equipment.  I will spine (also called pure) all shafts to 9 o'clock to hit the ball straight even if its not a good swing.  And I do not charge extra for this service!  If the player is good enough to work the ball then I will spine the shafts to 12 o'clock.  I will also flow-weight a set of iron shafts for a custom iron set at no extra charge.  I weigh every grip, shaft, and head as it arrives out of the shipping box.  And give the customer specs of each component and the finished product of every custom club I make.

[garyt1957]

On 2/16/2021 at 11:08 AM, Buffly said:

It's not just Tiger, and these people are customers, not endorsers:

Abraham Ancer

Dawson Armstrong

Jamie Arnold

Ricky Barnes

Daniel Berger

Wesley Bryan

Sam Burns

Cameron Champ

KJ Choi

Chad Collins

Fred Couples

John Daly

Cameron Davis

Bryson DeChambeau

Roberto Diaz

Jason Dufner

Ernie Els

Julian Etulain

 

Derek Fathauer

Zach Fisher

Rickie Fowler

Brice Garnett

Brian Gay

Lucas Glover

Fabian Gomez

Cody Gribble

Padraig Harrington

Jim Herman

Charley Hoffman

Tom Hoge

Lee Janzen

Dustin Johnson

Sung Kang

Matt Kuchar

Martin Laird

 

Nate Lashley

Danny Lee

Luke List

Will MacKenzie

Hideki Matsuyama

Graeme McDowell

Keith Mitchell

Grayson Murray

Dan Olsen

Ryan Palmer

Rod Pampling

Pat Perez

Kenny Perry

Rod Perry

Paul Peterson

Ted Potter, Jr

Fran Quinn

 

Chez Reavie

Justin Rose

Scottie Scheffler

Adam Schenk

Vijay Singh

Brandt Snedeker

Scott Stallings

Kyle Stanley

Shawn Stefani

Robert Streb

Chris Stroud

Justin Thomas

Martin Trainer

Harold Varner III

Lanny Wadkins

Johnson Wagner

Garrett Willis

Gary Woodland

Tiger Woods

(From SstPure 2019 on tour list http://sstpure.com/pro-players/ )

And not one of them pays to have it done. If someone wants to do mine for free, i'd let them.

[KC Golf]

Someone may have answered this before. But in your experience…@pineneedlespro

How often do you find the driver shaft spine not factory set at 12 or 9 o’clock when it’s top is set up originally to OEM standard?  Is it off by a lot?  Aren’t shafts designed to be fairly consistent in terms of spine?

Just curious. 

I am impressed that you offer this for free. I have found that everyone charges for it. That’s great customer service. 

[silver & black]

Waste of money... IMO.