Stealth, the future, and marketing

[Middler]

10 hours ago, Dog Faced Pony Soldier said:

I’ve made a career of working for manufacturers of consumer goods so I’m intimately familiar. Regularly I’m asked “why doesn’t it have/do ______?” You’re right… The answer is nearly always cost. 
 

My point is the industry focus on distance is because everyone from beginner to pro focuses on distance. It’s like asking why restaurants focus on making their food taste good. Because that’s largest demand from the end users! 

No disagreement, but as you know the USGA/R&A puts limits on COR/CT to prevent OEMs from increasing distance - unlike restaurants. There’s a lot the engineers can’t do and have the new driver on the conforming list. So there’s a lot of marketing ad copy vs actual distance improvements. Many reviewers have shared data time and time again showing new drivers aren’t really much longer if at all. So we come full circle on this thread back to marketing.

[DriverBreaker]

53 minutes ago, Middler said:

No disagreement, but as you know the USGA/R&A puts limits on COR/CT to prevent OEMs from increasing distance - unlike restaurants. There’s a lot the engineers can’t do and have the new driver on the conforming list. So there’s a lot of marketing ad copy vs actual distance improvements. Many reviewers have shared data time and time again showing new drivers aren’t really much longer if at all. So we come full circle on this thread back to marketing.

Indeed.  The title of the thread is “Stealth, the future, and marketing” after all.

When I started the thread, I had no idea the twists and turns it would take.  We never do.  I think at the end of the day it lead to some good discussion on the nature of the beast, what people want and expect from marketing, and clearly it varies. 
 

Golf manufacturers must play by the rules, so in order to do that and still push new products, they inevitably will have to invest heavily in their marketing.  The question could be posed, “why not just make a great product and keep building/selling it each year?”  Could save costs on R&D that way.  Yes, but then those people are without jobs as well, so it may just be par for the course until the USGA deregulates…. BWA HA HA HA!  That won’t happen….

 

[RickyBobby_PR]

3 minutes ago, GolfSpy_CS said:

The question could be posed, “why not just make a great product and keep building/selling it each year?”  Could save costs on R&D that way.

This can be applied to every product. How many people ran out and bought 4K TVs yet there was practically zero ;k content at the time then again with 8k TVs?

Why do new cars have to come out every year instead of just keep making the exact same model every year.

TM comes out with something relatively new in carbonface and all the changes in face size, construction and yet there’s a bunch of people calling it the same old thing, no improvement and so on despite them literally explaining how long they’ve been working on it, how things have changed in manufacturing and everything else that they and others are capable of now. 
 

Everyone raved at AI faces, updated jailbreak and nobody claimed anything about marketing, yet there’s people that saw no impediment in distance and there’s reviews of how some lost performance in their fittings. 
 

But like @jlukes says TM evil

[DriverBreaker]

3 hours ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

This can be applied to every product. How many people ran out and bought 4K TVs yet there was practically zero ;k content at the time then again with 8k TVs?

Why do new cars have to come out every year instead of just keep making the exact same model every year.

TM comes out with something relatively new in carbonface and all the changes in face size, construction and yet there’s a bunch of people calling it the same old thing, no improvement and so on despite them literally explaining how long they’ve been working on it, how things have changed in manufacturing and everything else that they and others are capable of now. 
 

Everyone raved at AI faces, updated jailbreak and nobody claimed anything about marketing, yet there’s people that saw no impediment in distance and there’s reviews of how some lost performance in their fittings. 
 

But like @jlukes says TM evil

I hear you.  While some may be saying it is the same old thing and ignoring the changes, I also see the point of the performance being the same.  A car that goes 0-60 in 5 seconds one year could do it via increased horsepower/torque.  Next year the newer model could reach 0-60 in 5 seconds and they got there via reducing weight and lowering horsepower.  Yet the end result is still the same:  0-60 in 5 seconds.

With products like iPhones or computers, video game systems, etc. or anything where there are tangible performance increase (not saying it is impossible with golf clubs), the marketing claims seem justified.  The issue many have with golf clubs is the built in restrictions on how hot the driver face can be.  So that’s where, in my view, people get frustrated with the marketing.

 

Say that the auto industry put limits on 0-60 times and a car can’t get there faster than 4 seconds (cite safety or whatever).  Then BMW says, our new M5 model goes 0-60 in 3.8 seconds because they added carbon fiber instead of steel here and there or whatever. There would be people who would buy it, those who wouldn’t, and those who would be frustrated with the marketing because they know that’s not possible given the regulations in place.

I think that’s where people who are frustrated are coming from.

[Middler]

19 minutes ago, GolfSpy_CS said:

With products like iPhones or computers, video game systems, etc. or anything where there are tangible performance increase (not saying it is impossible with golf clubs), the marketing claims seem justified.  The issue many have with golf clubs is the built in restrictions on how hot the driver face can be.  So that’s where, in my view, people get frustrated with the marketing.

+1, exactly. At least with most of the other products there's some actual improvement, measurable performance or more features. With golf drivers, they seem to want to make consumers believe they'll get more distance, when in fact that's unlikely to any significant degree. But it's clearly working (as with most products & services), as they continue to sell golf clubs every year...

[russtopherb]

10 minutes ago, Middler said:

+1, exactly. At least with most of the other products there's some actual improvement, measurable performance or more features. With golf drivers, they seem to want to make consumers believe they'll get more distance, when in fact that's unlikely to any significant degree. But it's clearly working (as with most products & services), as they continue to sell golf clubs every year...

If you're using a 5+ year old driver, then yes you will most likely see actual improvement. 

If you're using a Sim2, probably not. 

The constant whining about "marketing" has gotten old.

[RickyBobby_PR]

1 hour ago, GolfSpy_CS said:

I hear you.  While some may be saying it is the same old thing and ignoring the changes, I also see the point of the performance being the same.  A car that goes 0-60 in 5 seconds one year could do it via increased horsepower/torque.  Next year the newer model could reach 0-60 in 5 seconds and they got there via reducing weight and lowering horsepower.  Yet the end result is still the same:  0-60 in 5 seconds.

With products like iPhones or computers, video game systems, etc. or anything where there are tangible performance increase (not saying it is impossible with golf clubs), the marketing claims seem justified.  The issue many have with golf clubs is the built in restrictions on how hot the driver face can be.  So that’s where, in my view, people get frustrated with the marketing.

 

Say that the auto industry put limits on 0-60 times and a car can’t get there faster than 4 seconds (cite safety or whatever).  Then BMW says, our new M5 model goes 0-60 in 3.8 seconds because they added carbon fiber instead of steel here and there or whatever. There would be people who would buy it, those who wouldn’t, and those who would be frustrated with the marketing because they know that’s not possible given the regulations in place.

I think that’s where people who are frustrated are coming from.

But those things done require human infraction in the way golf clubs do. Some while it may not provide that for one person it may for someone else. Those knocking the “lack of oerformance” keep ignoring that there’s a large market of golfers who have older equipment and they will surely see increased performance and that’s who these clubs are being marketed to more so than the person who’s upgrading every year or every other year.

Im amazed that people every remotely get frustrated that a new club doesn’t show improved performance for yt reviewers or other social media influencers. There’s zero force to buy something because it’s new. If it doesn’t work for you cool don’t buy it and keep what you got or see if another new club does better for you. But complaining about marketing and results from a social media person when the complainer hasn’t even hit it themselves to see if the marketing claims are true or not is silly.

but hey golfers are going to complain because a product doesn't do what the manufacturer says every year for every release. Some because of brand bias, others because they want the club to be the quick and easy fix and not them putting in the work to make their swing better and some because they just have to complain to complain 

 

[DriverBreaker]

@RickyBobby_PR I’m not disagreeing with you.  I think perhaps there is some disconnect in my or others’ communication.  I’ll have to go back and reread posts but I’ve not gotten the vibe that people aren’t saying a 5yr old club will not be beaten by a modern club for a large portion of golfers.  We’ve discussed fittings, length and weight of the clubs, etc. throughout this thread.

People can be frustrated or they can’t.  They can buy or they don’t have to.  People have the right to say they don’t like marketing strategies and people have the right to say stop whining about marketing.  That’s the beauty of a forum like this and I enjoy hearing your and others’ views on it. 

From my perspective, one last time, it is about the regulations.  A driver can only be so hot or it won’t be placed on the USGA approved list. The hotness affects ball speed potential.  Ball speed combined with spin and launch lead to carry/total distance.  So if there is a cap, there is a cap.  Other things can help, and some clubs better fit golfers than others, thus giving them more distance (especially if they have an older driver). Some perform better than others.  But the limit is the limit.  That’s all I’m saying.

So back to the original point of the thread, how can manufacturers be more creative or enhance marketing of other aspects that have more room for improvement than ball speed/distance.  That’s all I was asking.  

[cnosil]

4 minutes ago, GolfSpy_CS said:

From my perspective, one last time, it is about the regulations.  A driver can only be so hot or it won’t be placed on the USGA approved list. The hotness affects ball speed potential.  Ball speed combined with spin and launch lead to carry/total distance.  So if there is a cap, there is a cap.  Other things can help, and some clubs better fit golfers than others, thus giving them more distance (especially if they have an older driver). Some perform better than others.  But the limit is the limit.  That’s all I’m saying.

So back to the original point of the thread, how can manufacturers be more creative or enhance marketing of other aspects that have more room for improvement than ball speed/distance.  That’s all I was asking.  

So,  this is marketing stuff, but based on an article I read: 

What TaylorMade’s crack team of engineers have come to realise is that lots of modern drivers hit the CT limit but fall below the previous allowable level for COR. So many drivers are actually COR losers. This difference though can be levelled up thanks to the physics and consistency of using a carbon fibre face, so with Stealth golfers get a legal CT with higher COR, which of course equals extra ball speed and distance.

If this is true,  there is potential that they have actually increased ball speed and stayed within the regulations.  From an engineering side,  this starts to become a can you beat the test type of exercise when trying to beat dead center strike ball speeds.  

[DriverBreaker]

26 minutes ago, cnosil said:

So,  this is marketing stuff, but based on an article I read: 

What TaylorMade’s crack team of engineers have come to realise is that lots of modern drivers hit the CT limit but fall below the previous allowable level for COR. So many drivers are actually COR losers. This difference though can be levelled up thanks to the physics and consistency of using a carbon fibre face, so with Stealth golfers get a legal CT with higher COR, which of course equals extra ball speed and distance.

If this is true,  there is potential that they have actually increased ball speed and stayed within the regulations.  From an engineering side,  this starts to become a can you beat the test type of exercise when trying to beat dead center strike ball speeds.  

Thanks for sharing.  I remember reading this line as well.  If they've figured out a way, well then I guess they have beat the system.  They told us they did so with the speed port screws before right?  Figured out a way to go past the limit then right up to the limit?  Do they really want to be on the radar of being non-conforming though?  Like "Ha!  We beat your test!  Nani nani boo boo!"  Just a feasibility thing.  Then would the USGA modify their standard again?  Kind of like how the college quarterback fake slid so they instituted a new rule against it.  IDK, it's all wild. 

We'll see if they start pulling loads of Stealth driver for the random tests at PGA Events LOL!!!  But then again, maybe they'd pass.  That would honestly be the best natural marketing ever for the stealth driver.  But stealth should fly under the radar..  If they really are faster, maybe PGA Tour players will start using them more, even the non-staffers?  

[cnosil]

26 minutes ago, GolfSpy_CS said:

Thanks for sharing.  I remember reading this line as well.  If they've figured out a way, well then I guess they have beat the system.  They told us they did so with the speed port screws before right?  Figured out a way to go past the limit then right up to the limit?  Do they really want to be on the radar of being non-conforming though?  Like "Ha!  We beat your test!  Nani nani boo boo!"  Just a feasibility thing.  Then would the USGA modify their standard again?  Kind of like how the college quarterback fake slid so they instituted a new rule against it.  IDK, it's all wild. 

 

i don't think I would be going to far out on a limb to say that this is what every manufacturer is doing not just TM.   I guess rule changes would be based on how much they would be able to get out of new drivers and how much they want to actually control distance.   

[PMookie]

2 hours ago, russtopherb said:

If you're using a 5+ year old driver, then yes you will most likely see actual improvement. 

If you're using a Sim2, probably not. 

The constant whining about "marketing" has gotten old.

My point I made as well.

[Middler]

4 hours ago, russtopherb said:

If you're using a 5+ year old driver, then yes you will most likely see actual improvement. 

If you're using a Sim2, probably not. 

The constant whining about "marketing" has gotten old.

So it will be worth my while, in distance and/or accuracy, to replace my 2018 Rogue driver next year. Good to know…

Just joking, I hate my Rogue driver so I’d be happy to replace it next year, maybe with the Fall Titleist driver update.

[RegisT]

As a senior golfer without a swing speed of 106mph or Greater (BTW, how many golfers do you know that swing their driver 106mph or Greater?), I fail to see how the new Stealth Driver does anything for me off the tee?  Gimme my old 45 gram shaft with ultralight grip and I’ll outdrive the Stealth against any slower swinger!

[John Bachman]

12 minutes ago, RegisT said:

As a senior golfer without a swing speed of 106mph or Greater (BTW, how many golfers do you know that swing their driver 106mph or Greater?), I fail to see how the new Stealth Driver does anything for me off the tee?  Gimme my old 45 gram shaft with ultralight grip and I’ll outdrive the Stealth against any slower swinger!

I’m a senior that swings around 100 mph with my driver and I doubt I’d see much difference either. Better to match a shaft to suit you no matter what head your using. Then it’s do you want to find length, accuracy or somewhere in the middle. 

[RickyBobby_PR]

3 hours ago, GolfSpy_CS said:

People can be frustrated or they can’t.  They can buy or they don’t have to.  People have the right to say they don’t like marketing strategies and people have the right to say stop whining about marketing.  That’s the beauty of a forum like this and I enjoy hearing your and others’ views on it. 

Yup they sure can. Imo it makes no sense to complain about something one has tried and go based on what some internet person or group of people experience in their testing and comments, especially when these same members in other threads or on other forums say that these internet reviewers don’t represent them or the avg golfer because they swing faster and rarely miss the center of the face

 

3 hours ago, GolfSpy_CS said:

From my perspective, one last time, it is about the regulations.  A driver can only be so hot or it won’t be placed on the USGA approved list. The hotness affects ball speed potential.  Ball speed combined with spin and launch lead to carry/total distance.  So if there is a cap, there is a cap.  Other things can help, and some clubs better fit golfers than others, thus giving them more distance (especially if they have an older driver). Some perform better than others.  But the limit is the limit.  That’s all I’m saying.

So back to the original point of the thread, how can manufacturers be more creative or enhance marketing of other aspects that have more room for improvement than ball speed/distance.  That’s all I was asking.  

While there are regulations for that most of the commenters and yourself are forgetting that a faster club create the potential for faster ball speeds. Manufacturers are working to create that sped thru their designs.  So speed/distance isn’t maxed out.

btw MGS’s own Tony Covey wrote about it too. Not sure why I’m surprised members and mods haven’t read or remember this article

https://mygolfspy.com/no-driver-distance-isnt-maxed-out/

[cnosil]

48 minutes ago, RegisT said:

As a senior golfer without a swing speed of 106mph or Greater (BTW, how many golfers do you know that swing their driver 106mph or Greater?), I fail to see how the new Stealth Driver does anything for me off the tee?  Gimme my old 45 gram shaft with ultralight grip and I’ll outdrive the Stealth against any slower swinger!

You seem to know how the club performs so I am assuming you have hit the club with a 45 gram shaft and ultralight grip?   I also assume you hit the optimal location on your driver every time you swing the club.  

Perhaps you wouldn't get any better performance; perhaps you would.  If you don't try it you won't know for sure

 

[DriverBreaker]

33 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

Yup they sure can. Imo it makes no sense to complain about something one has tried and go based on what some internet person or group of people experience in their testing and comments, especially when these same members in other threads or on other forums say that these internet reviewers don’t represent them or the avg golfer because they swing faster and rarely miss the center of the face

 

While there are regulations for that most of the commenters and yourself are forgetting that a faster club create the potential for faster ball speeds. Manufacturers are working to create that sped thru their designs.  So speed/distance isn’t maxed out.

btw MGS’s own Tony Covey wrote about it too. Not sure why I’m surprised members and mods haven’t read or remember this article

https://mygolfspy.com/no-driver-distance-isnt-maxed-out/

I’m at a loss now.  I’ve said over and over that faster swinging clubs lead to faster ball speeds.  I’ve mentioned longer and lighter shafts several times.   Swing the same club faster leads to faster ball speeds.  Better faster athletes, longer lighter shafts, etc. 

I’m not too sure what the issue is anymore, but I’ll respectfully bow out, wish you a good day, and reiterate that anyone can say they think the marketing is whatever they think it is.  This has gone a long way from the intent of the post. 
 

Peace, blessings, and hit it as far and straight as you can with a stealth or whatever club helps you the best.

[GolfSpy_APH]

8 hours ago, Middler said:

So it will be worth my while, in distance and/or accuracy, to replace my 2018 Rogue driver next year. Good to know…

Just joking, I hate my Rogue driver so I’d be happy to replace it next year, maybe with the Fall Titleist driver update.

When they went from Epic to Rogue it was certainly a disapointment (for me) one I loved the next... well I didn't. Hoping this Rogue version is what I was hoping the last one was going to be. Or it could have been the bay I was hitting it in which was way too loud and didn't see the numbers I was hoping for... however off topic here. 

This happens time and time again in threads and isn't necessarily a bad thing, however lets try and get back to the topic at hand. We all know OEM's will do what they can to best hype their marketing, we all know that it is everyones own personal experience or mind to make whether to not only believe a products hype, but also to validate it for themselves and make that decision on whether or not make the commitment to purchase whatever said product. Essentially, and related only to golf, it is on us to do our homework and make informed decisions. 

Frankly we are fortunate in golf we have a place like MGS and others where we can go into the weeds about products and experiences well in advance of making a purchase to do so. 

When Tony and I first started talking about this in our mod slack we were talking about if it could be a good time to marketing or hype for products to shift focus on other aspects other distance. We felt it would be a good topic for the forum and create some conversation which is certainly has. There are so many different view points which is great, again another reason why this forum is so great. 

Something we wanted to ask all of you and hear your thoughts regarding this topic and specifics which were asked in the original post. Will we see that shift that leans more towards forgiveness vs distance? Yes, forgiveness is talked about but typically distance is king (and yes we all know why it sells and so many are still looking for more or wanting more)... I posted a "blown away" cobra ad in another thread and nobody can tell me that was about forgiveness... altho it was Bryson so yeah it fits haha

So given all this that has been said do we think that as a whole we would be able to change the way companies market their drivers (I don't want to get into irons because we all know the road that leads to). Or are we too far down the road? Are their too many OTR purchases that the educated golfer simply doesn't pull enough weight to make that difference or between all the different cool new techs that have come out over the last number of years will we start to see some of these gains more consistently?

I think I've gone on long enough and I've tried to keep up with the thread as much as I could, but between work, covid, baby coming in the next week or so, mod projects and wife being very sick... oh and the 3 dogs of course. I haven't been able to really follow it as closely as I like. Hopefully as move forward to can steer back to the original topic and if we get more branches we can look at creating other new threads specific to those tangents. 

[Bassbeamer]

On 1/17/2022 at 12:38 PM, GolfSpy Barbajo said:

Second article I ever wrote for MyGolfSpy - this distance thing isn't a new phenomenon. It's been that way forevah!

Back to the Future: It has ALWAYS Been About Distance! | MyGolfSpy

 

Great old ads. Thanks for the article. I hate to admit it but I swallowed a lot of this marketing malarky over the years trying to purchase that extra distance. Now I am a senior looking for a combination of distance with good dispersion. I at the age where I will not gaining more distance. I grown comfortable with 225 in the fairway. In my younger days it was 250+ in the woods oob. We do get a little wiser as we grow older.

 

[RickyBobby_PR]

5 hours ago, GolfSpy_APH said:

So given all this that has been said do we think that as a whole we would be able to change the way companies market their drivers (I don't want to get into irons because we all know the road that leads to).

No because everyone wants more distance. Heard an interview a few years back between DJ and Meandmygolf and he said he would be happy to get 3 more yards from a driver. So even those who hit it long want more distance. Then add in those who are fans of strokes gained and how distance is key there too.

 

[fixyurdivot]

5 hours ago, GolfSpy_APH said:

I think I've gone on long enough and I've tried to keep up with the thread as much as I could, but between work, covid, baby coming in the next week or so, mod projects and wife being very sick... oh and the 3 dogs of course. I haven't been able to really follow it as closely as I like. Hopefully as move forward to can steer back to the original topic and if we get more branches we can look at creating other new threads specific to those tangents. 

The wife sick and a baby on the way... ughhh.  All the best to all of you .

[Middler]

This might interest those asking the OPs question? The marketing v consumer landscape is changing with social media etc. Consumers have way more access to other consumers opinions (e.g. MGS and many other platforms) and it’s much easier for savvy marketing people to personalize their pitch.

https://www.mediatoolkit.com/blog/relevant-content-consumers-vs-marketers/

Quote

In fact, 51% of consumers say less than half of brands create content that resonates as authentic, while that percentage is a lot higher from marketers’ perspective (92% of marketers believe their content is authentic).

Both marketers and consumers agree on the importance of authentic content, however, the disconnect happens in their understanding of the same. While consumers are 2.4 times more likely to say user-generated content (UGC) is more authentic than the brand-created one, marketers think exactly the opposite. They are 2.1 times more likely to say brand-created content is the authentic one.

What’s more, 79% of consumers say that UGC highly impacts their purchasing decisions, while only 13% say brand-created content is considered impactful. The percentage is even lower for influencer-created content (a mere 8%).

Not only that, but consumers nowadays seek personalization. They want personalized experiences, tailored exactly to their needs and they are (mostly) not getting them.

 

[chisag]

On 1/17/2022 at 6:30 PM, GolfSpy_CS said:

Fair enough.  I just wish there was more honesty in golf marketing.  Not all golfers scour forums like MGS and others and dive into the data and technology and know that certain marketing claims are unfounded.

 

... I'd like to see some examples of unfounded claims. I have said numerous times I don't understand why golfers think Marketing is any different than all other product marketing. Everything  tastes better, feels better, looks better, makes you happier, is stronger, bigger, smaller, sweeter, prettier, a better bargain or worth the extra cost and of course performs better than the competition. Personally I have just never found golf marketing any more misleading than the myriad of  "Natural" food products that are anything but natural and filled with chemicals and added sugar. 

... Every golf claim I have ever run across in talking with Marketing VP's are founded in facts to back them up. Yup, sometimes you need to read the fine print and often whatever they are hyping might be irrelevant to your game but I have never found them to be unfounded. If the Ping G425 is 1.78% more forgiving than the G410, Ping can certainly make the claim The G425 Is Our Most Forgiving Driver EVER!  even if the average golfer will find zero difference between the two and may even hit their 410 more accurately than a 425. 

... It's pretty simple really. Capitalism favors the seller not the buyer so "honesty" has never entered into it and as always ... Caveat emptor. 

[Middler]

Sure they all do it, in most industries. But a little hyperbole?

Quote

All-new PXG GEN4 Golf Clubs are the product of years of research and testing, combining specialized materials never before used in golf to produce incredible sound and feel, unbelievable forgiveness, explosive distance, and drop-dead sexy looks. Our flagship clubs include drivers, fairways, hybrids, and irons—each optimized to suit your swing and skyrocket your performance.

Quote

For the last 20 years, Titanium was all the rage. But we have always known that every material has a limit.

So, we started pushing the boundaries and now we’re leaving the old race behind to begin a completely new one. A race that drives beyond the here and now to raise the bar for what’s possible.

After 20 years in the making, the limits of titanium have been broken. Introducing Stealth™ drivers with 60X Carbon Twist Face.

Welcome to the Carbonwood Age.

 

[chisag]

6 minutes ago, Middler said:

Sure they all do it, in most industries. But a little hyperbole?

 

... I have always found hyperbole to be a borderline description as it implies outrageous claims or better than it really is but I agree OEM's certainly take it right up to that edge. In 2022 PXG will "skyrocket" your performance just like the 1950's Spalding Synchro Dyned woods and irons found "hundreds of gofers, low and high handicaps in case after case handicaps were reduced by one third and more!" simply by switching your persimmon driver and MB irons to Spaldings. So things have actually gotten a little better as PXG would never make the claim of reducing your index by 1/3rd or more simply by switching to their clubs. They stick to the 2022 nebulous claims like "sexy, explosive and incredible" and if you look at it in a different light they actually call themselves out with "unbelievable forgiveness"  

[RickyBobby_PR]

Berger a non Tm staffer picked up 3mph ball speed

Morikawa picked up 5

ive seen others on wrx picking up clubhead speed and ball speed. Some seeing 10 yard gains. 

[DriverBreaker]

On 2/6/2022 at 11:38 AM, RickyBobby_PR said:

Berger a non Tm staffer picked up 3mph ball speed

Morikawa picked up 5

ive seen others on wrx picking up clubhead speed and ball speed. Some seeing 10 yard gains. 

That's interesting and awesome for them! So the added clubhead speed contributing to the ball speed is a possible explanation for the WRX'ers?  Do we know if they are playing the same length shaft or longer? 

I looked it up on the PGA Tour stats page and Berger is swinging ~2mph faster on average in 2022 (117.16) than 2021 (115.87), which could explain the some of the added ball speed.  Morikawa seems to be swinging the same as 2021 (less than 1mph difference at 113.8 vs 114.07) but ball speed is up on average by 2mph (168.62 in 2021 vs 170.8 in 2022).  His max ball speed on tour is very close in 2022 (173.3) to what it was in 2021 (173.41).  Berger's max is very close (180.02 in 2021 vs 180.39 in 2022, but the average is higher in 2022 (174.87) than 2021 (172.85).  Maybe it is just more forgiving vs producing faster max ball speed (could explain the averages being higher with the maxes staying the same). 

Would be interesting to compare at the end of 2022 vs the total of 2021, as we are only a few events in to 2022. 

Did the WRXers say if they are doing speed training or swinging harder intentionally?

From the Most Wanted Driver Results I saw this:

[Johnball]

In general, it seems to me that the various golf club manufacturers will promote the ball speed theory just to increase sales. It's all damn marketing. It's similar to cryptocurrency https://icoholder.com/blog/how-to-make-money-with-cryptocurrency/ earnings. I believe that world records do not depend on manufacturers, but primarily on the players themselves

Edited March 1, 2023 by Johnball

[RickyBobby_PR]

1 hour ago, Johnball said:

In general, it seems to me that the various golf club manufacturers will promote the ball speed theory just to increase sales. It's all damn marketing. I believe that world records do not depend on manufacturers, but primarily on the players themselves

Everything is marketing on any consumer product. It’s funny people keep complaining about it like golf is somehow different.

Ball speed is an output and can be shown as improving or not. And if anyone reads all the marketing stuff the manufacturers state what it’s in comparison to and if you look at some like pxg they give lots of dat- each release