Handicap and Distance

[chisag]

... I am not sure of this has been posted before but I found this information very interesting and illuminating. At age 70 and a 1.3 index my distance is a little longer than average but all in all pretty close since I am on the low side of age 70-79. People complain about golfers playing the tips when they have no business playing those tees, but I see many more playing the 2nd or 3rd tee box when they should be playing the shortest tees. I talked my 81 yr old playing pard into playing a combo tees from the forward and 3rd tees and he reluctantly gave in and tried it. After about a month he just moved up to the forward tees full time and has now shot his age twice since moving up. As an 81 yr old 10 index, the chart is spot on for his distance. 



 

[GolfSpy_KFT]

3 minutes ago, chisag said:

... I am not sure of this has been posted before but I found this information very interesting and illuminating. At age 70 and a 1.3 index my distance is a little longer than average but all in all pretty close since I am on the low side of age 70-79. People complain about golfers playing the tips when they have no business playing those tees, but I see many more playing the 2nd or 3rd tee box when they should be playing the shortest tees. I talked my 81 yr old playing pard into playing a combo tees from the forward and 3rd tees and he reluctantly gave in and tried it. After about a month he just moved up to the forward tees full time and has now shot his age twice since moving up. As an 81 yr old 10 index, the chart is spot on for his distance. 



 

I always find stuff like this super interesting. I am a high index player at 26.1, but based on Arccos averages, my driver is 248 with some pushing the 260-280 range. When I hit a drive less than 250 we will say for the sake of conversation, I feel like I am WAY short. this chart makes me feel otherwise. At this point, I'd rather hit it 220-230 and straight 7 times out of 10 than the occasional bomb and then 6 misses left/right.

[chisag]

51 minutes ago, Jnoble89 said:

I always find stuff like this super interesting. I am a high index player at 26.1, but based on Arccos averages, my driver is 248 with some pushing the 260-280 range. When I hit a drive less than 250 we will say for the sake of conversation, I feel like I am WAY short. this chart makes me feel otherwise. At this point, I'd rather hit it 220-230 and straight 7 times out of 10 than the occasional bomb and then 6 misses left/right.

 

... There are always exceptions. I know plenty of high index players that can just bomb their drivers and usually have quick twitch muscles that often don't work so great with touch. They struggle with finesse shots and putting. Those of us that started playing with Persimmon woods and Balata balls that spun off the planet had to learn to control spin and hit the ball straight before trying to hit it long. With todays equipment it is much better to hit it long, then learn to hit it straight(er) so you are on the right track. Now you don't want to swing out of your shoes or with total reckless abandon, but the longer the better so aggressive is good. Accuracy will come in time with practice and dedication. You will get there. 

[Golf2Much]

@chisag, thanks for sharing.  Looking at the data, I'm feeling pretty good about my recent questionable golf game.  I turn 67 in two weeks, have an index of 12.5 and generally drive the ball 180 yards (Shot Scope driver performance average data).  With that driver distance and age, my index is about 8 plus better than it should be.  Or, projecting the curves to the right, my distance and index is dead on for someone 90-99 or older (though getting up three days a week to play at the crack of dawn there's days I feel like I'm in my 90's)!    Either way it's good news.   I play better than my age and driver distance say I should or I'm playing golf like a 90 plus year old, but 25-30 years younger.  

[Vegan_Golfer_PNW]

1 hour ago, chisag said:

 

... There are always exceptions. I know plenty of high index players that can just bomb their drivers and usually have quick twitch muscles that often don't work so great with touch. They struggle with finesse shots and putting. Those of us that started playing with Persimmon woods and Balata balls that spun off the planet had to learn to control spin and hit the ball straight before trying to hit it long. With todays equipment it is much better to hit it long, then learn to hit it straight(er) so you are on the right track. Now you don't want to swing out of your shoes or with total reckless abandon, but the longer the better so aggressive is good. Accuracy will come in time with practice and dedication. You will get there. 

I am an exception. I am hitting it far like a low handicap but the rest of my game hasn’t followed suit…..yet

[chisag]

1 minute ago, Vegan_Golfer_PNW said:

I am an exception. I am hitting it far like a low handicap but the rest of my game hasn’t followed suit…..yet

 

... Young and strong is a great combo. There rest of your game will follow if you put in the work. 

[revkev]

My predication is that there will be very few fessing up to being below average distance wise on this chart.   

 

Shotscope, like ARCOS has a P average - my P average is about 10 yards longer than my average drive.  If this chart represents the actual average driving distance per age and handicap I'm spot on at 66. 

 

And I do agree that the tips aren't often the issue for slow play - it's usually that penultimate set of tees that's the killer - most courses, especially the upscale ones, have four the really long ones have 5 - it's that second to the tips set in those scenarios that are the culprit all the time.  My sister course is a public upscale course, I will play it once in a while because it's a great track - people go for the tees at 6,500 yards long because that's what they play at home - they then play a 5 hour round because its sea level, the ball doesn't roll, there's water, sand and palm trees all over the place, it's windy - the 6,500 is like 6,800 plus where they live.  I talked the pro into moving the gold tees up for a month to see what difference it made - he told me the rounds were nearly 15 minutes shorter on average - but the last time I played there in a scramble they were back in their normal spots.  

 

I can't believe the number of guys who play the white/blue combo at my club.  I don't complain because they play quickly but it can't be fun.  I've played in the Friday group with them and there are always two or three par 4's where most of my group is laying up - I'd love to play in a group on Fridays but I just don't enjoy that and then the group that plays from the tees that I prefer gets upset because I hit it too far - but I use all of my clubs from those tees and it's not as if I'm knocking it on any of the par 5's in two.  I just prefer to be able to reach holes in regulation if I hit good shots.  

 

I wish that I lived closer to Larry D - his club has two courses with sets of tees that are a reasonable length and guys that play from those.  I'd join that one in a heart beat.  

[Kenny B]

There are a lot of factors that are probably considered but I don't know if any were considered.  Rev mentioned sea level; that's certainly one factor and Colorado is the other extreme.  There is also wet air and dry air.  Hard fairways; soft fairways.  Temperature and wind.  I would assume that this chart is an average across all conditions, but who knows.

That being said, I am fairly close to the 70-79 distance at age 76 on my course with hard, fast fairways.  I am also assuming that the handicap refers to index and not course handicap when the data was accumulated, but again we don't know.  I am an 11 index, but from the tees where I play here at home, my course handicap is 6... I would certainly skew the data if I posted as my 6 handicap.

[Kenny B]

2 hours ago, chisag said:

 

... There are always exceptions. I know plenty of high index players that can just bomb their drivers and usually have quick twitch muscles that often don't work so great with touch. They struggle with finesse shots and putting. Those of us that started playing with Persimmon woods and Balata balls that spun off the planet had to learn to control spin and hit the ball straight before trying to hit it long. With todays equipment it is much better to hit it long, then learn to hit it straight(er) so you are on the right track. Now you don't want to swing out of your shoes or with total reckless abandon, but the longer the better so aggressive is good. Accuracy will come in time with practice and dedication. You will get there. 

@Jnoble89... listen to Sam.  It's good advice.

[guytz72]

I turned the wrong side of 50 last year and noticed my distance had started to slide.  Was always around 107 CHS but this had dropped to 102 with a noticeable decrease in distance when playing.  Started using speed sticks from these guys https://speedstix.com and CHS is now 112.  Arccos driver distance is 283.  Aside from the speed training part of it the mobility test and corrections in their program helped loads and now I hurt less after a round of golf.  You have to put in the work but it is possible at any age.  

I play on a long course (7200+ off the tips) and if you want to play in the comps you don't have a choice of moving up a tee box.  Some of the carries to the fairway from the back tees are 240.

Just need to figure out how to putt....

[FallenSaber]

I saw this article as well and found it interesting. My drives are mostly inconsistent right now. My bombs go 260 to 290. My whiffs go 20 yards to 160. Haha. Seeing charts like this makes me feel somewhat better and makes me really question some of the guys who comment on they're capabilities. I recently joined a golf group on FB and they were giving a guy s*** for turning to a hybrid at 180 out. If I didn't know any better, I'd believe all those guys were pro level players since they claimed 180 was their 7 iron distance. Since joining I've come to the realization that it's basically just a trolling group. It's basically all they do. But back to the chart, while I love the long bombs, I think I'd be happy at average distance with more accuracy. That would probably lower my score faster than out driving the average person in my age and capability bracket.

[Tom the Golf Nut]

I think the only missing part of the graph is elevation. I'm sure this is based purely on an average. We really don't know what an average elevation is though. This way you can add or subtract from the average. 

Using Sea level as the baseline you would look at your actual elevation and multiply by .00116 to get the percentage increase.

Using Denver as an example 5280 feet times .00116  = 6.12% increase. So a 250 yard drive in Florida will be equivalent to 265.3 yards in Denver. (.00116 is from Titleist)  

Probably too much information here. I'm just always thinking! 

[GolfSpy_KFT]

19 hours ago, Kenny B said:

@Jnoble89... listen to Sam.  It's good advice.

I definitely don't hold back when I swing, that's for sure. I don't have to put much into it with driver to get around 105 mph which is nice because it doesn't feel like I am cranking on it but still get decent club head speed. And when I do hit it on the screws I can get 260-280 total distance which I love. I just need to develop more consistency so that I can do it more frequently. I know I can get there, though! I'm working really hard on improving aspects of my swing one section at a time, which I know you and @chisag both know as you've been helping me with some practice ideas this year!

[chisag]

25 minutes ago, FallenSaber said:

I saw this article as well and found it interesting. My drives are mostly inconsistent right now. My bombs go 260 to 290. My whiffs go 20 yards to 160. Haha. Seeing charts like this makes me feel somewhat better and makes me really question some of the guys who comment on they're capabilities. I recently joined a golf group on FB and they were giving a guy s*** for turning to a hybrid at 180 out. If I didn't know any better, I'd believe all those guys were pro level players since they claimed 180 was their 7 iron distance. Since joining I've come to the realization that it's basically just a trolling group. It's basically all they do. But back to the chart, while I love the long bombs, I think I'd be happy at average distance with more accuracy. That would probably lower my score faster than out driving the average person in my age and capability bracket.

 

... I play with a regular 4some, a 3some or 2some at times and occasionally as a single, especially summer when temps get above 110* when 2 of my snowbird pards go back to Chicago/Canada. Here is my personal experience with players off the tee. 

 

1. Mid to high index golfers more often that not just tiring to hit solid drives and get the ball in the fairway, distance isn't even part of their thought process

2. Players that love the long ball, over swinging with poor directional control but a couple times a round bust out huge drives that end up in the fairway. I rarely see them scale back their swing or play any club but driver, even when an iron is called for.

3. Average to good players that have little idea how far they hit their drives but always much shorter than they think they are. Kinda equally split between simple  ignorance and ego from that one huge drive they hit 10 years ago. 

4. Single digit payers that would like more distance but are realistic about how far they hit the ball and place a premium on accuracy over distance. Maybe try swing speed training or the occasional swing change but always come back to their normal swing of accuracy over distance.

5. The rarest group but probably more than many realize. Really good players that hit the ball stoopid long. They have "normal" swings that just naturally generate amazing swing speed. Played with one yesterday that averaged around 340 off the tee. The interesting thing about those players is they occasionally bring trouble into play that doesn't exist for 99% of us because they hit the ball so far there can be decorative dangers like flowers/shrubs/trees that aren't meant to be reached off the tee. They are usually a real treat to play with. 

6. And the last group is those obsessed with distance that have nothing resembling a real golf swing, probably watch long drive contests and can hit horrendous shot after shot but maybe one or two bombs a round and lucky to break 90. 

[chisag]

51 minutes ago, Tom the Golf Nut said:

I think the only missing part of the graph is elevation. I'm sure this is based purely on an average. We really don't know what an average elevation is though. This way you can add or subtract from the average. 

Using Sea level as the baseline you would look at your actual elevation and multiply by .00116 to get the percentage increase.

Using Denver as an example 5280 feet times .00116  = 6.12% increase. So a 250 yard drive in Florida will be equivalent to 265.3 yards in Denver. (.00116 is from Titleist)  

 

... 42 years in Chicago and the burbs and in my prime I could challenge 300yd drives but more often than not when measured by laser it came up in the 285-295 distance. I did occasionally get one out there 300yds but the conditions had to be just right. I would read on golf forums average golfers hitting 300yd drives and thought "delusional" much more often than not. Now at age 70 I still hither ball far for my age and when the conditions are right I can get a 300yd drive but more often something around 280 is a huge drive for me.

... The BIG difference between my prime and today is 1086' of elevation, high temps over 100* and hard fast fairways where 50yds of roll is possible. Even with all that in my favor, my average drive is more in the 250 range. I know if I were in Chicago or Orlando that average drive would drop to 230ish. So now before I think "delusional" I check the players location. No doubt there are players that hit the ball close to or over 300 anywhere in the country but when I see an average player claiming 300yds and they are from Colorado or Phoenix/Las Vegas I just think ... good for them! 

[MGoBlue100]

20 hours ago, revkev said:

people go for the tees at 6,500 yards long because that's what they play at home - they then play a 5 hour round because its sea level, the ball doesn't roll, there's water, sand and palm trees all over the place, it's windy - the 6,500 is like 6,800 plus where they live.  I talked the pro into moving the gold tees up for a month to see what difference it made - he told me the rounds were nearly 15 minutes shorter on average - but the last time I played there in a scramble they were back in their normal spots.  

 

I can't believe the number of guys who play the white/blue combo at my club.  I don't complain because they play quickly but it can't be fun.  I've played in the Friday group with them and there are always two or three par 4's where most of my group is laying up - I'd love to play in a group on Fridays but I just don't enjoy that and then the group that plays from the tees that I prefer gets upset because I hit it too far - but I use all of my clubs from those tees and it's not as if I'm knocking it on any of the par 5's in two.  I just prefer to be able to reach holes in regulation if I hit good shots. 

I think you've hit the nail, Rev.  I have this stored in my notes from a LONG time ago.  I "think" it came from somebody at the USGA, which normally means I would disregard it completely, but here I am...

It's based on the course slope rating, which takes into account those hazards, etc etc.  Take the number 142 and subtract your course handicap from that number.  The remainder corresponds to the slope of the tee boxes you should play on that course.  I have always found this to be more accurate than "How far do you hit your seven iron?", etc etc etc.

[chisag]

44 minutes ago, Jnoble89 said:

I definitely don't hold back when I swing, that's for sure. I don't have to put much into it with driver to get around 105 mph which is nice because it doesn't feel like I am cranking on it but still get decent club head speed.

 

... If I started with 460cc forgiving drivers and todays low spin balls and I was 40 or younger, I would swing as fast as I could comfortably swing. I would be looking to increase my swing speed while staying in balance. I would most definitely take advantage of swing speed training. My main focus would still be accuracy and distance control but hitting the ball farther would always be one of my goals. There is obviously a point of diminishing returns and Dechambeau is an extreme example along with many Tour Pros that tried to increase their length and their game suffered. But all in all longer is better so keep it up young man! 

[Brooky03]

I've always been curious how they arrive at these distance averages and whether they chop off the outliers at the top and bottom.  If I hit 250, 250, 250, 280, 30, the 30 definitely shouldn't count and the 280 probably shouldn't count.

If the chart is total distance, my handicap is 4-5 lines from where it 'should' be.

Edited June 29, 2023 by Brooky03

[Kenny B]

1 hour ago, MGoBlue100 said:

It's based on the course slope rating, which takes into account those hazards, etc etc.  Take the number 142 and subtract your course handicap from that number.  The remainder corresponds to the slope of the tee boxes you should play on that course.  I have always found this to be more accurate than "How far do you hit your seven iron?", etc etc etc.

This makes absolutely no sense for me.  If I understand what you stated here correctly, then I should be playing the tips at my course (6600y) when my average driving distance is ~200y.  

[revkev]

4 hours ago, chisag said:

 

... 42 years in Chicago and the burbs and in my prime I could challenge 300yd drives but more often than not when measured by laser it came up in the 285-295 distance. I did occasionally get one out there 300yds but the conditions had to be just right. I would read on golf forums average golfers hitting 300yd drives and thought "delusional" much more often than not. Now at age 70 I still hither ball far for my age and when the conditions are right I can get a 300yd drive but more often something around 280 is a huge drive for me.

... The BIG difference between my prime and today is 1086' of elevation, high temps over 100* and hard fast fairways where 50yds of roll is possible. Even with all that in my favor, my average drive is more in the 250 range. I know if I were in Chicago or Orlando that average drive would drop to 230ish. So now before I think "delusional" I check the players location. No doubt there are players that hit the ball close to or over 300 anywhere in the country but when I see an average player claiming 300yds and they are from Colorado or Phoenix/Las Vegas I just think ... good for them! 

My club is the home course for University of Tampa (which is weird because it's pretty far from their campus.)  We also have a large group of young wanna be pros who play on the mini tours and play out of the club and then we get the Canadian tour guys (or whatever it's called this week) in March.  Occasionally I get to play with some of those guys and it's mind boggling how far they hit it.  I can only imagine what it's like when they get on a rock hard course somewhere in the Midwest or better at some real elevation - I'm sure they are well north of 350.  

 

I fall into that non-delusional group that you've talked about.  I've done enough speed training to get back to the 230-240 range which is plenty long enough to shoot good scores from the tees that I play.  The beauty of playing those tees is that it takes really low scores to lower the handicap.

[tony@CIC]

On 6/28/2023 at 7:27 PM, Kenny B said:

There are a lot of factors that are probably considered but I don't know if any were considered.  Rev mentioned sea level; that's certainly one factor and Colorado is the other extreme.  There is also wet air and dry air.  Hard fairways; soft fairways.  Temperature and wind.  I would assume that this chart is an average across all conditions, but who knows.

That being said, I am fairly close to the 70-79 distance at age 76 on my course with hard, fast fairways.  I am also assuming that the handicap refers to index and not course handicap when the data was accumulated, but again we don't know.  I am an 11 index, but from the tees where I play here at home, my course handicap is 6... I would certainly skew the data if I posted as my 6 handicap.

Yup there area number of factors that we don't know if they've been taken into consideration - but maybe the the size of the sample group  eliminates those factors. One you didn't mention is fitness level - There are a few guys at our club our age (70's) that would skew the numbers upward - they're more disciplined in their fitness routine then I am. 

[MGoBlue100]

16 hours ago, Kenny B said:

This makes absolutely no sense for me.  If I understand what you stated here correctly, then I should be playing the tips at my course (6600y) when my average driving distance is ~200y.  

I didn't come up with the formula, just passing it along.  Play from wherever you'd like.  Choosing tees based on how far you hit some random club doesn't make any sense to me.

[MIGregB]

19 hours ago, MGoBlue100 said:

I think you've hit the nail, Rev.  I have this stored in my notes from a LONG time ago.  I "think" it came from somebody at the USGA, which normally means I would disregard it completely, but here I am...

It's based on the course slope rating, which takes into account those hazards, etc etc.  Take the number 142 and subtract your course handicap from that number.  The remainder corresponds to the slope of the tee boxes you should play on that course.  I have always found this to be more accurate than "How far do you hit your seven iron?", etc etc etc.

Like KennyB, I need some help understanding this. I'm not saying it's wrong, I just can't come up with any numbers that make sense. Can you elaborate? Thanks,

[MGoBlue100]

38 minutes ago, MIgregb said:

Like KennyB, I need some help understanding this. I'm not saying it's wrong, I just can't come up with any numbers that make sense. Can you elaborate? Thanks,

Again, I didn't come up with the formula.  I don't know if Dean Knuth (The "Pope of Slope") developed it or not, but that would be my guess.  I think the basic premise is that length is not always a good determinate of course difficulty.  That's what the Slope Rating is for.  I've always agreed with the idea that you should play the tees that match your skill level, not simply how far you hit any random club, whether Driver, five iron or seven iron.  Some courses that are easy you should probably play from farther back.  Some courses that are extremely difficult, you might need to move way up.  Playing relatively the same overall distance each and every time you play doesn't mean you're at the proper tees.

[MIGregB]

40 minutes ago, MGoBlue100 said:

Again, I didn't come up with the formula.  I don't know if Dean Knuth (The "Pope of Slope") developed it or not, but that would be my guess.  I think the basic premise is that length is not always a good determinate of course difficulty.  That's what the Slope Rating is for.  I've always agreed with the idea that you should play the tees that match your skill level, not simply how far you hit any random club, whether Driver, five iron or seven iron.  Some courses that are easy you should probably play from farther back.  Some courses that are extremely difficult, you might need to move way up.  Playing relatively the same overall distance each and every time you play doesn't mean you're at the proper tees.

I'm so sorry, I wasn't debating the rationale for the formula or questioning its validity. I literally couldn't come up with a number that came close to a slope for any tees on the course. (And I had a math minor in college!!! ). I even checked Knuth's site but couldn't come up with it. Would you mind running the calculation for perhaps your course as an example? Thanks!

Update: BTW, I really like the idea of determining the proper tee box based on the course slope/difficulty, not average driver/5 iron distance. 

[cnosil]

18 hours ago, Kenny B said:

This makes absolutely no sense for me.  If I understand what you stated here correctly, then I should be playing the tips at my course (6600y) when my average driving distance is ~200y.  

For the course I play pretty regularly, it would have me moving up a bit….5400 yards and I would have 4 sets of tee boxes behind me.   I drive the ball about 260 and from the up tees driver would be completely out my hands except for a few of the holes.   The player would have to have a 0 to plus 12 to play the back four sets of tees.  It is rated as one of the most difficult courses in the country.

[MGoBlue100]

A course I play regularly has a slope of 125 from the back tees.  (6357 yds)  I'm a 12.3, and I get 13 strokes.  142 - 13 = 129.  The slope from the back is only 125 so that's where I play.  At Bethpage Black, this calculator would tell me that the forward tees are probably too difficult for me.  I'd get 16 strokes from the front, and the slope is still 144, even though the yardage is 6223 according to what I found online.  My point all along has been that course difficulty and your skill set have a lot more to do with what tees you play than how far you hit any particular club.

[THEZIPR23]

1 hour ago, MGoBlue100 said:

A course I play regularly has a slope of 125 from the back tees.  (6357 yds)  I'm a 12.3, and I get 13 strokes.  142 - 13 = 129.  The slope from the back is only 125 so that's where I play.  At Bethpage Black, this calculator would tell me that the forward tees are probably too difficult for me.  I'd get 16 strokes from the front, and the slope is still 144, even though the yardage is 6223 according to what I found online.  My point all along has been that course difficulty and your skill set have a lot more to do with what tees you play than how far you hit any particular club.

I would agree that slope should factor into which tees you play to some degree but this formula leaves a lot to be desired. I play with a 12 handicap every week, based on this he would be playing the back tees at our club (6657). He carries his driver about 180 yards. From the back tees a lot of par 4's would be 3 shots to reach green and 2 of the par 3's are unreachable for him. I don't think anybody would advise him to play from that set of tees. 

[chisag]

27 minutes ago, THEZIPR23 said:

I would agree that slope should factor into which tees you play to some degree but this formula leaves a lot to be desired. I play with a 12 handicap every week, based on this he would be playing the back tees at our club (6657). He carries his driver about 180 yards. From the back tees a lot of par 4's would be 3 shots to reach green and 2 of the par 3's are unreachable for him. I don't think anybody would advise him to play from that set of tees. 

 

... Well, if I wanted to sandbag, this formula would be perfect for me. I am a 1.3 and get 3 from the tips at my home course. 142-3=139. My course slope from the tips is 132 so at 7078 yds I should hit from behind the tee box at age 70.   My index would be climbing very quickly. For most courses 6400-6600 works great for me because I like having to hit all the clubs in my bag during a round. Playing shorter tees can be fun but lots of short irons into greens while playing longer is no fun at all as almost every par 4 turns into a par 4.5 or shortish par 5. In my mind a good player should have a chance of reaching 2 of the par 5's in 2 with their best efforts and 2 of the par 5's needing 3 shots. Some really good players are shorter hitters and make up for not with excellent irons and a stellar short game so there are always different ways to play this most awesome game. 

... I think we have all run across different formula's for what works for us. Driving distance works for me but not so much a high index player that can hit it far off the tee but all over the course. None of the formula's are perfect and every golfer is unique. 

[fixyurdivot]

22 hours ago, MGoBlue100 said:

I think you've hit the nail, Rev.  I have this stored in my notes from a LONG time ago.  I "think" it came from somebody at the USGA, which normally means I would disregard it completely, but here I am...

It's based on the course slope rating, which takes into account those hazards, etc etc.  Take the number 142 and subtract your course handicap from that number.  The remainder corresponds to the slope of the tee boxes you should play on that course.  I have always found this to be more accurate than "How far do you hit your seven iron?", etc etc etc.

Maybe I'm missing something here but this dosen't make sense to me either.  Using Cimarron as an example, slope from the white tees (6368 yards) and from which I play most often, is 123.  My current handicap from that tee is 9.  123-9=114 which suggests I should be playing gold/red.  My average driving distance is ~225 yards.  Perhaps the calculation is largely based on giving the player the best chance at shooting par?  Presuming all other parts of one's game is solid, maybe it would.  I might have to give it a trial... when the course is empty and no one is around .

As I stated earlier, I use average second or third shot (par 5's) distance as my gage.  If I can pretty consistently reach the green with well struck shots, using 6i an up, that makes me feel like I'm playing from the correct tees for my average hitting distances. Depending which groups/guys I play with, I sometimes will do the blue/white combo.  It does gain me 1 stroke but it makes one of the par 5's and one par 3 really tough to reach in regulation; particularly if the wind is up.