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Pebble Creek Golf Club........gone?

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From the Neighborhood News.......

 

Pebble Creek Golf Club Owner Says The Club Hasn’t Been Sold…Yet

 

January 28, 2019 by John Cotey

 

It appears to be just a matter of time before Pebble Creek Golf Club is sold to a developer looking to build homes on it.

 

The rumored sale of the Pebble Creek Golf Club (PCGC) is, to use golfing vernacular, like a perfect approach to the green that stops a few inches short of the cup.

 

Now, interested developers are deciding whether or not they want to tap the ball into the cup.

 

Bill Place, the owner of PCGC since 2005, has confirmed that a purchaser for his 149-acre property has been identified, but says that there has beent no sale yet.

 

“Completely wrong,” Place says of the rumors that the club had been sold.

 

But, it now appears the sale of New Tampa’s first golf course (it opened in 1967) may be just a matter of time.

 

The interested party, who offered the highest price among what Place says were eight interested developers, is currently going through a 90-day inspection process to help evaluate whether or not it wants to finalize its purchase.

 

That included meeting with Pebble Creek residents last week, as well as studying zoning issues and exactly how many units — whether apartments, condos or homes — can be built on the property.

 

“As I understand it, the company we chose has done this in a lot of places and works with the community,” Place says. “It’s not a company that comes in and just blasts away.”

 

Even if the sale is finalized, Place says that the rezoning process and securing government approval and permits likely will be an 18- to 24-month process.

 

“It’s safe to say we won’t be going away before then,” says Place, who along with wife Su Lee, owns the company, Ace Golf, that owns PCGC and three other Tampa Bay-area golf courses.

 

Place did not identify the potential buyers, or how much the offer was on the property.

 

As For The Community…

 

Mike Jacobsen, the president of the Pebble Creek Homeowners Association, says he has been fielding questions about the potential sale since the rumors began swirling late last year.

 

“I put something on our web page that basically says Bill Place told me he has multiple bids and is actively planning on selling it,” he says. “Right now, we don’t know who the company is.”

 

Jacobsen says not a single resident he has talked to is happy about the impending sale. He expected residents to make their voices heard when the rezoning comes before the Hillsborough County Commission.

 

“There’s so many great lakes on that property, there’s no way we’re going to allow those to go away,” Jacobsen said. “The other thing I’m concerned about is lacking the infrastructure to handle more homes. Nobody is really looking at this as a positive.”

 

 

According to Place, the property already has underlying zoning permitting 600 new units, but he adds that, “there is no way they are going to put that many units on it.”

 

In September, the PCGC property was listed on the website of land brokers Cushman & Wakefield. The listing boosted the property by heralding its 12 existing lakes, homes in Pebble Creek that are selling “in the mid-$200,000s to upper-$300,000s,” an average household income within a three-mile radius of $106,179 and the 3,189,266 square feet of retail within a three-mile radius of the semi-private golf course.

 

The detailed listing, which Place denied ever approving, included a marketing flyer, water and sewage map, a zoning site plan, Pebble Creek’s declaration of covenants and restrictions (dated Sept. 2, 1986) and a unit count calculation that said 840 apartment and townhome units were potentially feasible to replace the golf course.

 

That’s about when Jacobsen began hearing from residents, and he called Place for an explanation.

 

“What he told me was that someone reached out to him about selling it,” Jacobsen says. “But, if bids come in and offers come in, he said, ‘I’m going to take it.’ I guess the company took that as an initiative to (list).”

 

Place has acknowledged that business has not been good at the golf course, which was designed by Bill Amick and offers 6,436 yards of play from the blue tees. He said revenues at the club were down in 2018 by a third, and profits were down by 50 percent.

 

The construction on Bruce B. Downs (BBD) Blvd. certainly didn’t help, but many golf courses in general are in an economic slump.

 

 

Pebble Creek Golf Club owner Bill Place says that Mulligans Irish Pub inside the golf course’s recently renovated clubhouse is the club’s only money-maker.

Place also said that although Pebble Creek boasts more than 1,000 homes, there are only 20 Pebble Creek homeowners who currently are members of the golf club. Place says the club has tried various specials to lure new members, with cheaper membership dues, to no avail.

 

Mulligans Irish Pub, the clubhouse restaurant and bar, continues to be successful, however. “Sad to say, but Mulligans is really the only area where we make money,” Place says.

 

For now, he is letting the transaction unfold as the golf course remains open for business as usual.

 

“We’re prepared for it to go either way,” Place says of the possible sale. “If it happens, it happens. If it doesn’t, we’ll continue to operate as long as it’s feasible. Unfortunately, that’s why we’re here in the first place (because it may not be feasible).”

 

 

My Club, My Home for golf for the past 10 years. This makes two courses that I have been a member of that have, or will be turned into housing. I’ll just keep on playing until it’s a done deal, then decide where to go, as it could take a couple years.

 

I am very sad...

 

 

 

Sent from my iPad using MyGolfSpy

Cobra Connect Bag: Cobra F8 Driver(10.5*) 3-4W(14.5*) & 5-6W(18.5*)w/Mitsubishi Tensei ck Blue Regular; Cobra F8 3 Hybrid, 5 Hybrid & 6-PW, Gw(49*) SW(54*) LW(58*) all w/UST Mamiya Recoil 460 ES regular shafts. Lamkin Cobra Connect grips with Arccoss tracking sensors. Putter: Evnroll ER6 33”. Bag: Cobra Ultralite Cart Bag(Peacoat/Silver).

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Foz, that's a bummer to hear about to say the least. Especially since you own property on the course. However, this isn't the first story I've read about where the property is worth more chopped up into housing and multi-use than remaining a golf course. I mostly hear this in high population density areas it seems. How does this effect your home value? Better? Worse? Same? I wonder if you can get out now and preserve value? Not to be negative but could values decline later when all the disruption of construction begins? What's the upside to all this? Is there any? I'm sure my questions aren't new to you. 

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Foz, that's a bummer to hear about to say the least. Especially since you own property on the course. However, this isn't the first story I've read about where the property is worth more chopped up into housing and multi-use than remaining a golf course. I mostly hear this in high population density areas it seems. How does this effect your home value? Better? Worse? Same? I wonder if you can get out now and preserve value? Not to be negative but could values decline later when all the disruption of construction begins? What's the upside to all this? Is there any? I'm sure my questions aren't new to you. 


Thanks PJ, I live 7 miles from the course, but 2 of my foursome live on the course. They are both concerned, but if this transaction concludes, it will take a couple years and we’ll have time to take ou4 Saturday game to another course in the area.


Sent from my iPad using MyGolfSpy
Cobra Connect Bag: Cobra F8 Driver(10.5*) 3-4W(14.5*) & 5-6W(18.5*)w/Mitsubishi Tensei ck Blue Regular; Cobra F8 3 Hybrid, 5 Hybrid & 6-PW, Gw(49*) SW(54*) LW(58*) all w/UST Mamiya Recoil 460 ES regular shafts. Lamkin Cobra Connect grips with Arccoss tracking sensors. Putter: Evnroll ER6 33”. Bag: Cobra Ultralite Cart Bag(Peacoat/Silver).

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Seems to be an all too common thing in recent years.  Sucks when it happens to us though.  I saw over the weekend, my former club was having great difficulty in remaining open and may possibly close soon.  I no longer live in that area but have friends who have been negatively affected by the decline in course conditions over the past few years.  

Hope you and your regular group are able to find a suitable replacement, Foz. 

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This is a bummer - it's a really nice course. Except for 18. They can bulldoze 18 any time 😉

 

Seriously, sorry this is going down Foz - you have a special place with a good group of people there.

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40 minutes ago, fozcycle said:

 


Thanks PJ, I live 7 miles from the course, but 2 of my foursome live on the course. They are both concerned, but if this transaction concludes, it will take a couple years and we’ll have time to take ou4 Saturday game to another course in the area.


Sent from my iPad using MyGolfSpy
Cobra Connect Bag: Cobra F8 Driver(10.5*) 3-4W(14.5*) & 5-6W(18.5*)w/Mitsubishi Tensei ck Blue Regular; Cobra F8 3 Hybrid, 5 Hybrid & 6-PW, Gw(49*) SW(54*) LW(58*) all w/UST Mamiya Recoil 460 ES regular shafts. Lamkin Cobra Connect grips with Arccoss tracking sensors. Putter: Evnroll ER6 33”. Bag: Cobra Ultralite Cart Bag(Peacoat/Silver).

 

I suppose in a way that's the good news. If I lived in a large metropolitan area like Tampa or Dallas, Houston, etc. I don't think I'd be a member of private club any longer. There are so many muni and daily fee courses in these areas that it's affordable to play around the area and not be tied to monthly dues. And I know many of these are very nice courses. Most large cities have Golf Cards you can purchase to further reduce greens fees, etc.

Like you say... nothing is emanate at this point.

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Sad news, sorry to hear about it Foz.  We've got room for you and your guys up here in SC.  I'm afraid it isn't quite as consistently warm and sunny as Florida, though.

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This is crappy to hear Foz. My first time meeting both you and @GolfSpy Barbajo was there, so it's a great place for me as well.

Well, until it's sold we'll keep tearing it up on our annual get together.

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So sorry Foz

I think it’s the way of it - these older courses that play to shorter yardages and are a bit our of the way don’t attract enough business from the crowd that’s willing to plop down 50-100 per round because they want 7,000 plus on the scorecard.

Pebble Creek is a fun place to play and Mulligans and awesome - but the lack of distance, neighborhood location and no range are killers. Temple Terrace which is older still is in the same boat.


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This is a bummer - it's a really nice course. Except for 18. They can bulldoze 18 any time
 
Seriously, sorry this is going down Foz - you have a special place with a good group of people there.


For me it’s 10 - I’d be more than happy to drive the truck out there, starting with the tree that blocks my draw on the right. :)


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This is crappy to hear Foz. My first time meeting both you and [mention=2876]GolfSpy Barbajo[/mention] was there, so it's a great place for me as well.

Well, until it's sold we'll keep tearing it up on our annual get together.


Great memories for sure.......it’s been my home for 10+ years.


Sent from my iPad using MyGolfSpy
Cobra Connect Bag: Cobra F8 Driver(10.5*) 3-4W(14.5*) & 5-6W(18.5*)w/Mitsubishi Tensei ck Blue Regular; Cobra F8 3 Hybrid, 5 Hybrid & 6-PW, Gw(49*) SW(54*) LW(58*) all w/UST Mamiya Recoil 460 ES regular shafts. Lamkin Cobra Connect grips with Arccoss tracking sensors. Putter: Evnroll ER6 33”. Bag: Cobra Ultralite Cart Bag(Peacoat/Silver).


For me it’s 10 - I’d be more than happy to drive the truck out there, starting with the tree that blocks my draw on the right. :)


Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy


Just gotta learn how to hit past the tree. For me it’s a low stinger wit( my driver.


Sent from my iPad using MyGolfSpy
Cobra Connect Bag: Cobra F8 Driver(10.5*) 3-4W(14.5*) & 5-6W(18.5*)w/Mitsubishi Tensei ck Blue Regular; Cobra F8 3 Hybrid, 5 Hybrid & 6-PW, Gw(49*) SW(54*) LW(58*) all w/UST Mamiya Recoil 460 ES regular shafts. Lamkin Cobra Connect grips with Arccoss tracking sensors. Putter: Evnroll ER6 33”. Bag: Cobra Ultralite Cart Bag(Peacoat/Silver).
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On 1/28/2019 at 11:38 AM, fozcycle said:

My Club, My Home for golf for the past 10 years. This makes two courses that I have been a member of that have, or will be turned into housing. I’ll just keep on playing until it’s a done deal, then decide where to go, as it could take a couple years.

Wow, your misfortune with golf course based developments is adding further pause in our current thought about buying a home in a 55+ Del Webb, Robson, etc. community.  Sorry to hear about this. I know folks in WA state that owned a home in the Lipoma Firs GC community who heard the chatter early on about a possible closure of the course, waited too long, and now look at the back of another house instead of the 6th green.  The reason for this was because the original owner/developer passed away and the estate went into a protracted legal fight amongst the kids - the final settlement being to sell it all with the course acreage being turned (mostly) into more homes.

I find it odd this happening in Tampa.  So far, most of the AZ golf course communities seem to be avoiding this disaster and I would think the demographics of your area to be the same?  Perhaps an early indication, a crack in the egg?   I'm not sure any of these developments guaranty that the golf course remains in perpetuity.  We're left with doing as much research as we can, accept the risks, and hope for the best.

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Bummer, Foz.  Maybe you could import a few burrowing owls from Cape Coral.  That'd be the end of any construction plans for quite a while.

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Time to do some research: must be a tsetse fly or indigenous snail living on the golf course...


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I heard they found 11 endangered species 9n the property, which means they will have to relocate them. More reason not to buy the property.


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Sorry to hear the news Foz.  I know it's a special place for you and your regular group. 

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On 2/2/2019 at 10:49 PM, MGoBlue100 said:

Time to do some research: must be a tsetse fly or indigenous snail living on the golf course...


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There could be something to this.  We had a highway bypass design project get re-routed because of a Bog Turtle.  It cost about $15 million in delays, additional land acquisition and re-design fees!

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Sad to hear this about what was originally one of the top tier courses in the Tampa area. I only remember playing there once or twice, but it's a good track.

This seems to be the way of things for the semi-private course genre. They are either too expensive or exclusive to generate much non-member play so they eventually can't maintain the course to the standards the members want. When that drives membership down, they go full public and that can drive more members away. Any course, private/semi/public whatever, that can't maintain a steady level of play is in danger of folding sooner rather than later.

I think the more concerning thing is the development plan. Especially for that area. I know living in the part of town that I do that it seems the developers and county commissioners are not concerned with the impact of adding that many more residential properties. The area around my neighborhood has 5 new residential areas under construction without any improvement in the roads or utility infrastructure.

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