How'd you play?

[edingc]

Had the pleasure of being invited to play a scramble at American Dunes in Grand Haven yesterday. For those unfamiliar with American Dunes, it is a recently-opened Jack Nicklaus redesign of Grand Haven Golf Club that is dedicated to the Folds of Honor project. Folds of Honor is a nonprofit organization that helps provide the families of fallen and disabled service members and first responders with educational scholarships. Typically a $155 round this time of year so to get on for an outing was a nice day!

They stripped down several inches of top soil during the redesign and got back to the sand base as it is basically a huge sand dune near Lake Michigan.

My tee game was pretty solid, short game was really good, putting was better than I expected but my iron play was poor. Still an excellent day and a lot of fun.

My cliff notes course review:

• Be sure to review the satellite maps or the scorecard holes closely. There's several blind shots around the course. On the par 5 No. 13 hole I thought it was particularly unfair, as your second shot goes up blind over a hill and funnels down to a green surrounded by bunkers. I don't know that you could possibly hit the green other than through blind luck.
• Shotmaker's dream around the greens. Lots of fun to be had with different options for high shots, low runners, etc.
• Tough but fair setup. If I had been playing solo I'd have played away from most of the trouble and been OK. The par 3s are brutal.
• It's very good golf, but there is a lot of good golf in West Michigan and there are courses with rates in the $60-$90 range that are just as good. Obviously, the proceeds from American Dunes go to a good cause so keeping that in mind it's somewhere I'd love to play every couple of years as a treat.

[richk9holes]

I played well yesterday, close to how I'd like to play. I was "good enough" so to speak. No putts went in beyond 5' but I hit a bunch of great 2 putts from long distance. Hit 5 greens but had 6 or 7 more that were a fraction off. Started with right misses, first drive and approach, 2nd drive and approach all well struck just missed lived in the right rough the 1st 3 holes. Found the center later in the round but 4 or 5 approaches flew too far, hard ground bounces and 1 ground drainage grate bounce over or through greens.

All of this was met with frustration and complaining as I shot my personal best score at the course. Afterwards on reflection I realized I was "that guy" for the other 3 in my group. I didn't keep their score but they were out of play a lot and probably didn't score as they hoped. I played a decent round at 44-41 for 85 +14. The minutiae of missing a FW by 10' or having a 7i fly 10y longer than I planned are things I have to react to on the fly, not agonize over.

[Jim Shaw]

well, round one of the bc mid am is in the books, I was not very good today, 82... leaders at 72... "golf" another 4 letter word... hopefully tomorrow will be better

[chisag]

2 minutes ago, Jim Shaw said:

well, round one of the bc mid am is in the books, I was not very good today, 82... leaders at 72... "golf" another 4 letter word... hopefully tomorrow will be better

 

... Ya made a big comeback last time! 

[Jim Shaw]

53 minutes ago, chisag said:

 

... Ya made a big comeback last time! 

thanks, yes, have two more days to move up the leaderboard... 

[GolfSpy_KFT]

Had first night of my scramble league today. Played a warm up 9 beforehand and it was the worst I have played all year so far. I could not for the life of me hit a good golf shot and lost probably 7-8 balls over the 18 holes played. Need to get on the range and do some practice..finding the time to do it is the challenge. 

I had one decent hole during league on a Par 3 where we used all of my shots, but otherwise had a bad high toe miss on all woods and kept fading/pushing most of my shots. 

[Shapotomous]

League night was another disappointing swing search.  I messed up one shot per hole not playing favorites but hitting bad shots with all different clubs.  Bad tee shot, bad approach, bad chip, bad putt....they all showed up one time or another. 

The only positive was I avoided carding a double.  Good thing its a 9 hole league because any more rhan that and i am sure a double was coming up! 

[josmi15]

Due to weather and daughters dance competitions, i've only been able to get out 3 times this season.  I pulled up my stats and only have 1 birdie this season.  I took a vacation day on monday to play a round w/ Judge Smails.  To loosely quote Charles Dickens "It was the best of times.  It was the worst of times"  the Front 9 I shot a 43 w/ a penalty.  I know i hit 3 bad shots that i couldn't overcome.  I was pretty proud of the way I overcame those shots.  The back nine was just a dumpster fire.  49, couldn't string together anything.  It was if the golf gods decided i had enough good moments for the round, and it was my fault for not divvying them up over 18 holes.

 

[JudgeSmails]

10 minutes ago, josmi15 said:

Due to weather and daughters dance competitions, i've only been able to get out 3 times this season.  I pulled up my stats and only have 1 birdie this season.  I took a vacation day on monday to play a round w/ Judge Smails.  To loosely quote Charles Dickens "It was the best of times.  It was the worst of times"  the Front 9 I shot a 43 w/ a penalty.  I know i hit 3 bad shots that i couldn't overcome.  I was pretty proud of the way I overcame those shots.  The back nine was just a dumpster fire.  49, couldn't string together anything.  It was if the golf gods decided i had enough good moments for the round, and it was my fault for not divvying them up over 18 holes.

 

I told ya we shoulda played 1 again!!

A fun round, but one we can burn the scorecard

[JudgeSmails]

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Edited May 17, 2023 by JudgeSmails
trying to delete

[ejgaudette]

Got out for what I thought would be 9 yesterday but the course was empty so I ended up bouncing around and playing 12 holes. Still getting into form and irons were particularly poor. On the other hand I have been working on partial wedges and those were all pretty crisp and starting to get an idea of how far they all go so I think this will really help improve scoring and recovery. I had a number of shots from 30 to 65 yards and got up and down (unfortunately all for par) 4/6 times. It was great to feel in control and that if I got out of position off the tee I just needed to get somewhat close to be able to save par. Closer chips I got bit robotic on so I need to keep that creativity for the 25 yard and under shots but something to keep practicing when I can.

[StrokerAce]

17 minutes ago, ejgaudette said:

Got out for what I thought would be 9 yesterday but the course was empty so I ended up bouncing around and playing 12 holes. Still getting into form and irons were particularly poor. On the other hand I have been working on partial wedges and those were all pretty crisp and starting to get an idea of how far they all go so I think this will really help improve scoring and recovery. I had a number of shots from 30 to 65 yards and got up and down (unfortunately all for par) 4/6 times. It was great to feel in control and that if I got out of position off the tee I just needed to get somewhat close to be able to save par. Closer chips I got bit robotic on so I need to keep that creativity for the 25 yard and under shots but something to keep practicing when I can.

hitting those partial shots is one of the most difficult things for me and I envy your ability! when I've been able to do it my scoring definitely showed it. 

congrats to you! you have the hard part down.

[Jim Shaw]

25 minutes ago, ejgaudette said:

Got out for what I thought would be 9 yesterday but the course was empty so I ended up bouncing around and playing 12 holes. Still getting into form and irons were particularly poor. On the other hand I have been working on partial wedges and those were all pretty crisp and starting to get an idea of how far they all go so I think this will really help improve scoring and recovery. I had a number of shots from 30 to 65 yards and got up and down (unfortunately all for par) 4/6 times. It was great to feel in control and that if I got out of position off the tee I just needed to get somewhat close to be able to save par. Closer chips I got bit robotic on so I need to keep that creativity for the 25 yard and under shots but something to keep practicing when I can.

great post for me, thank you, a question, so you hit those 30-65 yards by being creative or "feel"? and if so do you have any mechanics that you follow.

[ejgaudette]

35 minutes ago, StrokerAce said:

hitting those partial shots is one of the most difficult things for me and I envy your ability! when I've been able to do it my scoring definitely showed it. 

congrats to you! you have the hard part down.

Oh not yet only one round it but have been focusing on practicing set up and strike on these in my net. I was a bit too arms dominant in the past and didn't really build a solid matrix. So just going to continue to work on contact and set up and swing lengths to then test how far they go and hopefully give myself some more consistent options. I found this video really helped me use set up to control swing length. Using this I can feel stretch in my left side and that is the cue to stop turning which gives me knee, waist, and shoulder height swing lengths. It has been super helpful.

@Jim Shaw This helped me use stance as I tried to just feel but it does not work great. Don't use this to a tee but similar ideas, I added in a close stance one for my shortest option as 3 club heads is very close to a full swing for me but it varies for everyone.

[ejgaudette]

Also sorry one last thing the hope is this should solve for basically 100 to 25 yards

[Charles Lechair]

Got in 9 after work yesterday and shot a 44. Score wasn't great but plenty of positives to take away from it

Most importantly - huge improvement with the driver - I've had a bad case of the snap hooks for a month or two now, but i had a few nukes yesterday. 

Greens were very slow - not sure they've cut them since the Member/guest last weekend - left everything short, but had great reads on everything and was hitting the putts i wanted to - just never adjusted to the speed. It's hard to convince yourself to hit them as hard as you need to on slow greens sometimes

Doubled both the par 5s unfortunately. One due to a boneheaded decision, one due to a couple bad swings. 

All in all, not thrilled with the score, but happy with how i struck the ball for the most part. Working through some things and have seen some improvement recently. We move

[chisag]

1 hour ago, Jim Shaw said:

a question, so you hit those 30-65 yards by being creative or "feel"? and if so do you have any mechanics that you follow.

 

 

... Jumping in this discussion with a slightly different perspective. As a QB and shooting guard I never thought about mechanics to throw a 10, 20, 30 or 40 yd pass.  Same with jump shots and I never considered positions for a 5, 10, 15, 20 foot shot or on and beyond the 3 point line. I just looked at my target and threw it or shot it that distance. Golf shots are exactly the same. I don't have any mechanical thoughts on a 30 yd vs a 65yd pitch. Just look at the target and use the amount of effort needed to reach that distance. 

... So yes, those are all "feel". I will grant you I have a natural ability to see a distance and have my body react accordingly but that wasn't a huge help when I fist started playing golf. Just like it took me years to become a good jump shooter, it took me several years to develop the feel needed to execute those shots. Of course the longer I played/practiced the better I got at them. Not so much the distance control but more the ability to have a repeatable swing to compliment my distance control. Flaws like looking up, being tense, over swinging or not swinging with enough force and just general all around poor contact needs to be addressed. But once you have even a fairly repeatable swing, I think anyone can develop the feel needed to execute partial shots*. I harp on this a lot, but when your brain sees the distance, it knows how much effort is needed and if you don't get in your brains way with mechanical thoughts, different arm positions or changing stances to shift it's focus away from the target, many will be surprised how easy distance control can be. 

* I would add the last but most important element of executing feel is confidence or belief. If you believe you can hit a ball 30 or 65 yds with equal success, you have a good chance of doing just that. If you doubt you can execute those distances your chances of success drop exponentially with how much doubt you have. 

[invee123]

Played Saturday at TPC Prestancia in Sarasota, FL and the most glaring differences between golf in Florida vs. colorado is the 10-15 yards of carry lost from altitude/humidity as well as how HOT it is down there. I grew up in Florida but didn't play golf so I never understood the amount of sweat that would happen as a result of a round!! Aside from those hindrances, I had a relatively successful round at a +12 (from the middle tees, course hcp was a 12). Continued with my testing on the OnCore Vero X2 balls and boy did I make some interesting discoveries on that balls performance, specifically regarding spin, when it was able to perform in heavier air. 

With regards to the course, however, I wasn't the most impressed... I may have boosted expectations given that it was a renowned member of the TPC collection and in order to book a tee time, I had to use the Mastercard Experiences portal to have an agent book the time for me 2 weeks in advance. Not to say course conditions were bad but the layout itself was just... kind of plain. I didn't get any pictures because we were celebrating mothers day and I was too caught up in the moment, but coming from CO and playing mountainous courses with rocks and large hilly terrain, it seemed pretty point-and-shoot on most of these holes. I did play another round (unfinished) at Legacy GC in Lakewood Ranch, and that was much nicer in my opinion (that update will come soon)

[MaxEntropy]

Pretty good night in last yesterday, although the way things started, it could have gotten ugly very fast if short game didn't save my a$$. Instead of potentially starting bogey, bogey, double, I started par, bogey, bogey. Everything was right the first three holes, and not by just a little bit. Finally, at the 4th hole, piped one down the middle (good for long drive). The rest of the night, everything was a pull (!?!?!?). Normally par 5's are a strength, but I bogied both of them (a penalty on one and a 3-putt on the other). I ended up +5 40 and, for the first time in a long time, nothing worse than bogey on the card.

[CB Lobo 4 Life]

Played pretty well the other day. Been a bit since I have done a full 18-hole stretch. I loved it and for once the wind was blowing like a hurricane out in in the White Mountains of AZ. My tee shots were exceptional! But those approach shots/short game shots were my Achilles heel. I was either feeling FOGL (Fear of Going Long) or being totally long when it came to those shots. Any advice for getting better at the 150 and in shots closer to the hole/on the green more? If I could fix that I imagine I would see the light at the end of the tunnel when it comes to being a scratch golfer.

[funkyjudge]

1 hour ago, chisag said:

 

 

... Jumping in this discussion with a slightly different perspective. As a QB and shooting guard I never thought about mechanics to throw a 10, 20, 30 or 40 yd pass.  Same with jump shots and I never considered positions for a 5, 10, 15, 20 foot shot or on and beyond the 3 point line. I just looked at my target and threw it or shot it that distance. Golf shots are exactly the same. I don't have any mechanical thoughts on a 30 yd vs a 65yd pitch. Just look at the target and use the amount of effort needed to reach that distance. 

... So yes, those are all "feel". I will grant you I have a natural ability to see a distance and have my body react accordingly but that wasn't a huge help when I fist started playing golf. Just like it took me years to become a good jump shooter, it took me several years to develop the feel needed to execute those shots. Of course the longer I played/practiced the better I got at them. Not so much the distance control but more the ability to have a repeatable swing to compliment my distance control. Flaws like looking up, being tense, over swinging or not swinging with enough force and just general all around poor contact needs to be addressed. But once you have even a fairly repeatable swing, I think anyone can develop the feel needed to execute partial shots*. I harp on this a lot, but when your brain sees the distance, it knows how much effort is needed and if you don't get in your brains way with mechanical thoughts, different arm positions or changing stances to shift it's focus away from the target, many will be surprised how easy distance control can be. 

* I would add the last but most important element of executing feel is confidence or belief. If you believe you can hit a ball 30 or 65 yds with equal success, you have a good chance of doing just that. If you doubt you can execute those distances your chances of success drop exponentially with how much doubt you have. 

More simply put (and a quote that I often use): “If you think you can or you think you can’t, you are probably correct”.

[funkyjudge]

1 hour ago, chisag said:

 

 

... Jumping in this discussion with a slightly different perspective. As a QB and shooting guard I never thought about mechanics to throw a 10, 20, 30 or 40 yd pass.  Same with jump shots and I never considered positions for a 5, 10, 15, 20 foot shot or on and beyond the 3 point line. I just looked at my target and threw it or shot it that distance. Golf shots are exactly the same. I don't have any mechanical thoughts on a 30 yd vs a 65yd pitch. Just look at the target and use the amount of effort needed to reach that distance. 

... So yes, those are all "feel". I will grant you I have a natural ability to see a distance and have my body react accordingly but that wasn't a huge help when I fist started playing golf. Just like it took me years to become a good jump shooter, it took me several years to develop the feel needed to execute those shots. Of course the longer I played/practiced the better I got at them. Not so much the distance control but more the ability to have a repeatable swing to compliment my distance control. Flaws like looking up, being tense, over swinging or not swinging with enough force and just general all around poor contact needs to be addressed. But once you have even a fairly repeatable swing, I think anyone can develop the feel needed to execute partial shots*. I harp on this a lot, but when your brain sees the distance, it knows how much effort is needed and if you don't get in your brains way with mechanical thoughts, different arm positions or changing stances to shift it's focus away from the target, many will be surprised how easy distance control can be. 

* I would add the last but most important element of executing feel is confidence or belief. If you believe you can hit a ball 30 or 65 yds with equal success, you have a good chance of doing just that. If you doubt you can execute those distances your chances of success drop exponentially with how much doubt you have. 

PS — I would much rather have a 105-125 yard shot into the green than anything inside of 75 yards!

[josmi15]

18 minutes ago, funkyjudge said:

PS — I would much rather have a 105-125 yard shot into the green than anything inside of 75 yards!

I think i prefer 75 and in more than 80+  i'm probably in the minority on this. though.

 

[chisag]

14 minutes ago, funkyjudge said:

PS — I would much rather have a 105-125 yard shot into the green than anything inside of 75 yards!

 

... We all have our strengths and weaknesses. I used to play to a lay up yardage until I bought Mark Broadie's book and it was a game changer for me. Get as close to the green as possible helped me get to a + index. The more I had those partial shots on the course the better I executed them. The only time I prefer to lay back at least 80yds is when the pin is tucked in front over a bunker or water. I just can't spin the ball on a low flying partial shot enough to play safe/smart and clear the hazard with a margin of error and get the ball to hop and stop.

[StrokerAce]

2 minutes ago, chisag said:

 

... We all have our strengths and weaknesses. I used to play to a lay up yardage until I bought Mark Broadie's book and it was a game changer for me. Get as close to the green as possible helped me get to a + index. The more I had those partial shots on the course the better I executed them. The only time I prefer to lay back at least 80yds is when the pin is tucked in front over a bunker or water. I just can't spin the ball on a low flying partial shot enough to play safe/smart and clear the hazard with a margin of error and get the ball to hop and stop.

+1 on this. Dr. Broadie's Every Shot Counts is an eye-opener.

I'm not a fan of partial shots but if you follow Lou Stagner on social you can see the stats and the numbers don't lie. Getting as close to the green as possible with a shorter shot is easier for a wide wide majority of golfers. This type of strategy/thinking definitely cut strokes off my round. 
Of course every situation is unique but, overall, playing to a layup distance has been proven to cost more strokes than it saves.

[GolfSpy_APH]

Only played 9. Course was packed and slow. Being a 2 some behind 4 just drags along... Not to mention the group ahead was slow slow. 

Little annoyed marshalls didn't pair up the 4 or so sets of 2 some ahead of the 4 but in the end just added some range time and all was good!

[ejgaudette]

2 hours ago, chisag said:

 

 

... Jumping in this discussion with a slightly different perspective. As a QB and shooting guard I never thought about mechanics to throw a 10, 20, 30 or 40 yd pass.  Same with jump shots and I never considered positions for a 5, 10, 15, 20 foot shot or on and beyond the 3 point line. I just looked at my target and threw it or shot it that distance. Golf shots are exactly the same. I don't have any mechanical thoughts on a 30 yd vs a 65yd pitch. Just look at the target and use the amount of effort needed to reach that distance. 

... So yes, those are all "feel". I will grant you I have a natural ability to see a distance and have my body react accordingly but that wasn't a huge help when I fist started playing golf. Just like it took me years to become a good jump shooter, it took me several years to develop the feel needed to execute those shots. Of course the longer I played/practiced the better I got at them. Not so much the distance control but more the ability to have a repeatable swing to compliment my distance control. Flaws like looking up, being tense, over swinging or not swinging with enough force and just general all around poor contact needs to be addressed. But once you have even a fairly repeatable swing, I think anyone can develop the feel needed to execute partial shots*. I harp on this a lot, but when your brain sees the distance, it knows how much effort is needed and if you don't get in your brains way with mechanical thoughts, different arm positions or changing stances to shift it's focus away from the target, many will be surprised how easy distance control can be. 

* I would add the last but most important element of executing feel is confidence or belief. If you believe you can hit a ball 30 or 65 yds with equal success, you have a good chance of doing just that. If you doubt you can execute those distances your chances of success drop exponentially with how much doubt you have. 

This is a great point and I will note that I am a bit more a feel play usually so this is just giving me something to help with the feel and on the 4 that I saved I was guessing a bit on how far the swing I picked went and it lined up well. So you do still need that and of course there will be gaps in any matrix so you need to get that feel to go a bit harder or a bit softer to dial it in. Just needed something to get me on track. It has been a deficiency for a long time that I am hoping to shore up this year. Still a lot more to practice.

[chisag]

4 minutes ago, ejgaudette said:

This is a great point and I will note that I am a bit more a feel play usually so this is just giving me something to help with the feel and on the 4 that I saved I was guessing a bit on how far the swing I picked went and it lined up well. So you do still need that and of course there will be gaps in any matrix so you need to get that feel to go a bit harder or a bit softer to dial it in. Just needed something to get me on track. It has been a deficiency for a long time that I am hoping to shore up this year. Still a lot more to practice.

 

... I have always said I am a big fan of whatever works. Experimenting is an important part of that. But what I personally will never compute is say a clock position for a specific distance. For every 50yd shot I face, most are different almost every time. How much wind and from what direction, uphill or downhill, where can I miss short or long that gives me the best results all have to be figured in every shot. A singe position for a single yardage would seem like homework to compute and adjust when I can just look at 50 yds with a 10mph wind in my face and know I need to hit it lower and with more speed than if there were no wind. I am much more creative than analytical so I am sure that plays a part. 

[StrokerAce]

11 minutes ago, ejgaudette said:

This is a great point and I will note that I am a bit more a feel play usually so this is just giving me something to help with the feel and on the 4 that I saved I was guessing a bit on how far the swing I picked went and it lined up well. So you do still need that and of course there will be gaps in any matrix so you need to get that feel to go a bit harder or a bit softer to dial it in. Just needed something to get me on track. It has been a deficiency for a long time that I am hoping to shore up this year. Still a lot more to practice.

I'm with you and @chisag on just "feeling" the shot. I've played bball for almost 40 years on a regular basis and it's like chisag said - you just rely on your perception.

I think sometimes we can become too mechanical and not trust our body. The proprioception we have as humans is quite remarkable, but golf is different than some other ball sports - base, foot, basket - in which we don't hold the object we're directing. I'll bet if you told someone to throw the golf ball to a spot they wouldn't think about anything and just kind of trust themselves and do it. 

Put a ball down on the ground and ask them to use the proper amount of force with a club to send that ball to a certain spot is clearly much more difficult. 

Shawn Clement does a fantastic job of describing this.

[warrenator8]

23 minutes ago, GolfSpy_APH said:

Only played 9. Course was packed and slow. Being a 2 some behind 4 just drags along... Not to mention the group ahead was slow slow. 

Little annoyed marshalls didn't pair up the 4 or so sets of 2 some ahead of the 4 but in the end just added some range time and all was good!

I hate playing as a single at times during the summer for the same reason. I teach, so I can play during the week most days during the summer, and I always end up behind the slow groups. It does get annoying after a short while.