Liv Golf Central Thread: Events and News

[bens197]

35 minutes ago, chisag said:

... If the PGA Tour had a 54 hole, no cut exhibition event in December/January when golf is scarce and with the same LIV field of players ... would we have 57 pages about it? If not I think it is pretty safe to say it is about the obscene blood money that many supporters of LIV's attempt to cripple, if not destroy the PGA Tour think is a good thing. And those not on board with LIV think obscene amounts of blood money is reprehensible from the top down.

... The next LIV exhibition is not being hosted by UNICEF or the Red Cross but by a businessman that went bankrupt 11 times, has thousands of law suits against him for not paying contractors what they agreed on and drives his golf cart on the green. LIV could not find a better poster boy for $money$ over everything else. 

A match made in heaven with that man baby.  Imagine aligning with that loser and thinking you have a winning product... 

[Thin2win]

5 hours ago, LICC said:

I don’t see why the PGA Tour should be obligated to run events in countries all over the world. It is a U.S. organization. It’s great to work with other region’s tours on the occasional co-sponsored event or have a few big exhibitions, but it’s not on the PGA Tour to have to go move events all over the world. 

you are 100% correct. It is under no obligation, and that isn't its business model. Buts its membership is made up of a world wide group, and for some of them, the desire to play events somewhere other then the US is high. That is one thing besides money that LIV is offering.

5 hours ago, LICC said:

There is a more financially lucrative option for the players. Not better for golf. These 54-hole, no-cut events certainly are not better for the fans. 

I'm like @chisagI've given up on watching most of the PGA content, the long drive contest is impressive but it doesn't do it for me in terms of catching my interest and holding it. I watch the LPGA weekly, I watch the men play the Majors, the Players and Riviera.

I don't know if the 54 hole no cut event is better, but I can't say it is bad for golf. The ratings on "The Match" were good enough that it has been repeated a few times now. One of the long term complaints about golf is that it takes too long. Coverage for a normal event is almost 12 hours a day for 4 days. Most consumers only tune in for some of Saturday and Sunday.  If they are only going to watch for a few hours, maybe the shotgun start lets them see more of the event.

If I was planning on attending a LIV event, knowing that the whole thing was a 5 hour event makes it a lot easier to plan around. Also, would I know that my favorite player will be there Sunday(assuming I had a favorite LIV player) to watch since he couldn't miss a cut.

I'd say anything that drives interest in golf is probably a good thing for the sport. If 54 hole events do that for some section of people that wouldn't be viewers otherwise, then it works. If it doesn't get any more eyeballs or interest, then it doesn't.

I really liked the idea of the format and the team aspect of it when the PGL was trying to get the PGA to team up for it. I thought there were some really cool things that a joint PGL/PGA  effort could have done for golf. That obviously didn't happen, and LIV basically copied the PGL playbook and thats what we have now. Ideally for me, LIV as a product would fail, but some of the PGL innovations and more global reach make it to the PGA.

[GolfSpy_SHARK]

3 minutes ago, bens197 said:

A match made in heaven with that man baby.  Imagine aligning with that loser and thinking you have a winning product... 

I am not researching who is it lol. I have not been following this thread to closely, I have my thoughts on the subject.

What I did find interesting was some discussion this morning on the local sports radio station, it was about the LIV and the potential for the same group to try and take a stab at introducing some sort of NFL type product...…can you imagine Good old Joshy boy taking 200 million for 4 years?!

[LICC]

5 minutes ago, Thin2win said:

you are 100% correct. It is under no obligation, and that isn't its business model. Buts its membership is made up of a world wide group, and for some of them, the desire to play events somewhere other then the US is high. That is one thing besides money that LIV is offering.

Good point and I agree. The occasional event in Australia or Asia or elsewhere would be good. I think that is what they are now planning to do after next year.

[Thin2win]

2 minutes ago, LICC said:

Good point and I agree. The occasional event in Australia or Asia or elsewhere would be good. I think that is what they are now planning to do after next year.

I see that The PGA is trying to do more global involvement through its DP Tour partnership. So they are doing some things, but a DP event isn't a PGA event and the names that show up at those two are very different. Getting JT, Speith, Rory, Scottie, John, etc to do some events outsite the US would be cool boost for golf. Watching the Open last week and how the crowd really loved Speith was cool. And they get to see him 1 or 2 times a year so they go all in on it.

[bens197]

26 minutes ago, Lacassem said:

I am not researching who is it lol. I have not been following this thread to closely, I have my thoughts on the subject.

What I did find interesting was some discussion this morning on the local sports radio station, it was about the LIV and the potential for the same group to try and take a stab at introducing some sort of NFL type product...…can you imagine Good old Joshy boy taking 200 million for 4 years?!

Never gonna happen. No way

[GolfSpy_SHARK]

17 minutes ago, bens197 said:

Never gonna happen. No way

If Vince McMahon cant make it happen no one can!

[RickyBobby_PR]

52 minutes ago, Thin2win said:

you are 100% correct. It is under no obligation, and that isn't its business model. Buts its membership is made up of a world wide group, and for some of them, the desire to play events somewhere other then the US is high. That is one thing besides money that LIV is offering.

Those players are choosing to come to a US based tour. Many of them have DP World Tour membership or other foreig tour. They also have to choice too play there. Nobody is forcing them to play on the PGA tour. Some of them play PGA tour events without being a member because they have exemption via OWGR standing. Just like many PGA tour American golfers go play overseas. This argument has irrelevant. They have all the opportunity to play wherever they want and pretty much whenever they want. They also have the ability to apply for exemptions.

Just because they chose to come to the US doesn’t mean the PGA tour need to do anything extra around the world which you admitted to earlier.

48 minutes ago, Thin2win said:

I see that The PGA is trying to do more global involvement through its DP Tour partnership. So they are doing some things, but a DP event isn't a PGA event and the names that show up at those two are very different. Getting JT, Speith, Rory, Scottie, John, etc to do some events outsite the US would be cool boost for golf. Watching the Open last week and how the crowd really loved Speith was cool. And they get to see him 1 or 2 times a year so they go all in on it.

you do realize that the DP World Tour is the new name for the Euro Tour and those names you mention already play events on that tour?

 

[TBS]

1 hour ago, Lacassem said:

I am not researching who is it lol. I have not been following this thread to closely, I have my thoughts on the subject.

What I did find interesting was some discussion this morning on the local sports radio station, it was about the LIV and the potential for the same group to try and take a stab at introducing some sort of NFL type product...…can you imagine Good old Joshy boy taking 200 million for 4 years?!

Imagine going beyond NFL. What if they got into college athletics with NIL. They are already sponsoring some college golfers on NIL.

They could literally dismantle college football in 3 years. Choose a random school. Give $2 million to each starter and host a desert bowl game. By year 2, the transfers would start. By year 3, the team would be untouchable.

[GolfSpy_SHARK]

1 minute ago, TBS said:

Imagine going beyond NFL. What if they got into college athletics with NIL. They are already sponsoring some college golfers on NIL.

They could literally dismantle college football in 3 years. Choose a random school. Give $2 million to each starter and host a desert bowl game. By year 2, the transfers would start. By year 3, the team would be untouchable.

Pluck them right from college, that's a really good point. Dont even have a chance to get to the draft, offer that upfront money. WOOF

[Thin2win]

1 minute ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

Those players are choosing to come to a US based tour. Many of them have DP World Tour membership or other foreig tour. They also have to choice too play there. Nobody is forcing them to play on the PGA tour. Some of them play PGA tour events without being a member because they have exemption via OWGR standing. Just like many PGA tour American golfers go play overseas. This argument has irrelevant. They have all the opportunity to play wherever they want and pretty much whenever they want. They also have the ability to apply for exemptions.

Just because they chose to come to the US doesn’t mean the PGA tour need to do anything extra around the world which you admitted to earlier.

you do realize that the DP World Tour is the new name for the Euro Tour and those names you mention already play events on that tour?

 

I'm not arguing that they can our can't play anywhere. Most international players play on the PGA tour because it offers the biggest purses and the most OWGR points to get into the Majors. This is good for them, and for the PGA tour because it attracts the best talent. They both benefit from this. But for many years(at least as far back as Normans mid 90s attempt) some of those international players have been asking for the tour to become more global. Very few PGA tour players play over seas, and if they do it is again(shockingly) for the money of an appearance fee or for the Open Championship.

Time Zones, existing sponsors, and lots of logistics prevent the PGA Tour from running events in every spot on the planet. But more effort from the PGA tour on this part would have been one less talking point and sales pitch tactic for LIV to have and use.

 

 

[GolfSpy_APH]

21 minutes ago, Lacassem said:

Pluck them right from college, that's a really good point. Dont even have a chance to get to the draft, offer that upfront money. WOOF

Why both before the draft or college, outbid the college teams and have them straight from High School.

[RickyBobby_PR]

26 minutes ago, Thin2win said:

I'm not arguing that they can our can't play anywhere. Most international players play on the PGA tour because it offers the biggest purses and the most OWGR points to get into the Majors. This is good for them, and for the PGA tour because it attracts the best talent. They both benefit from this. But for many years(at least as far back as Normans mid 90s attempt) some of those international players have been asking for the tour to become more global. Very few PGA tour players play over seas, and if they do it is again(shockingly) for the money of an appearance fee or for the Open Championship.

Time Zones, existing sponsors, and lots of logistics prevent the PGA Tour from running events in every spot on the planet. But more effort from the PGA tour on this part would have been one less talking point and sales pitch tactic for LIV to have and use.

 

 

The PGA tour has been more global for several years now. They have partnered with the Asian tour on events. Justin Thomas has two wins at the CIMB, the SBS.

There are events in Mexico, Bermuda, Puerto Rico, Dominican Republic, Canada that are all PGA tour sponsored events.

Everything you keep saying the tour should do in general or for the foreign players that come here they have already been doing and yet the players still left.

[fixyurdivot]

2 hours ago, Thin2win said:

I'm not arguing that they can our can't play anywhere. Most international players play on the PGA tour because it offers the biggest purses and the most OWGR points to get into the Majors. This is good for them, and for the PGA tour because it attracts the best talent. They both benefit from this. But for many years(at least as far back as Normans mid 90s attempt) some of those international players have been asking for the tour to become more global. Very few PGA tour players play over seas, and if they do it is again(shockingly) for the money of an appearance fee or for the Open Championship.

Time Zones, existing sponsors, and lots of logistics prevent the PGA Tour from running events in every spot on the planet. But more effort from the PGA tour on this part would have been one less talking point and sales pitch tactic for LIV to have and use.

 

 

When a business entity feels they are "to big to fail", they're typically big enough. It's the old evolve and innovate or become obsolete axiom. Greg Norman and his hired think-tank are leveraging every aspect/weakness they see in the PGA model.  Nothing new here in the world of business and new entrants efforts to grab a share of a market. They also are benefitting from Jay's decision to pull the nuclear lever.

Here's looking forward to the first PGA event in Montana .

Surprised to hear Smith's only hearing $100M; would expect more. Could Hedeki become the new bench mark deal, rumored to be $250-300M?  This will no doubt rankle Phil's feathers. Who might even eclipse that mark? What would a Tiger deal be worth - $1B?  If Greg allows use of carts, that might just get it done .

Just having some fun on a topic that nothing anyone says on this thread will have any affect on how this ultimately plays out... some have their suspenders cinched awfully tight .

[RickyBobby_PR]

43 minutes ago, fixyurdivot said:

When a business entity feels they are "to big to fail", they're typically big enough. It's the old evolve and innovate or become obsolete axiom. Greg Norman and his hired think-tank are leveraging every aspect/weakness they see in the PGA model.  Nothing new here in the world of business and new entrants efforts to grab a share of a market. They also are benefitting from Jay's decision to pull the nuclear lever.

Here's looking forward to the first PGA event in Montana .

Surprised to hear Smith's only hearing $100M; would expect more. Could Hedeki become the new bench mark deal, rumored to be $250-300M?  This will no doubt rankle Phil's feathers. Who might even eclipse that mark? What would a Tiger deal be worth - $1B?  If Greg allows use of carts, that might just get it done .

Just having some fun on a topic that nothing anyone says on this thread will have any affect on how this ultimately plays out... some have their suspenders cinched awfully tight .

DJ got what $125m?

$100m for cam might be anti over paying 

[MacTourney]

42 minutes ago, fixyurdivot said:

Greg Norman and his hired think-tank are leveraging every aspect/weakness they see in the PGA model.  Nothing new here in the world of business and new entrants efforts to grab a share of a market.

Just having some fun on a topic that nothing anyone says on this thread will have any affect on how this ultimately plays out... some have their suspenders cinched awfully tight .

This thread is entertaining and LIV is certainly not a rookie organization when it comes to decision making.  

[fixyurdivot]

6 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

DJ got what $125m?

$100m for cam might be anti over paying 

Yeah, good point. Only some of the players bonus bucks have been revealed and these aren't even confirmed.  NDA's will likely keep things cloaked for a bit but, in today's world, most details see the light of day sooner than later.  Also, who knows what other perks and monetary opportunities might be unique to each contract.  It seems to me that the front office is strategically targeting certain players in hopes that builds interest from various countries and perhaps a pipeline of other players from places like Japan, Australia, South Africa, etc.

One aspect of this that we've not discussed (or I haven't seen it) is the opening up of opportunities for KF and college players. Breaking through should become a little easier.  On the flip side, they could start targeting KF and college phenoms... we're watching a high stakes poker game.

[Thin2win]

1 hour ago, fixyurdivot said:

Here's looking forward to the first PGA event in Montana .

If they do it at Black Bull does Faldo come out of announcing retirement to call it?

[Middler]

1 hour ago, fixyurdivot said:

When a business entity feels they are "to big to fail", they're typically big enough. It's the old evolve and innovate or become obsolete axiom. Greg Norman and his hired think-tank are leveraging every aspect/weakness they see in the PGA model.  Nothing new here in the world of business and new entrants efforts to grab a share of a market. They also are benefitting from Jay's decision to pull the nuclear lever.

If LIV was offering comparable purses without huge signing bonuses, your POV would have merit. They’re not leveraging weaknesses in the PGA, they’re overwhelming them with huge money. This is like you bidding against Bezos and calling it a fair fight. 

[fixyurdivot]

2 minutes ago, Thin2win said:

If they do it at Black Bull does Faldo come out of announcing retirement to call it?

That or join LIV as a player on Team Relics .

[fixyurdivot]

4 minutes ago, Middler said:

If LIV was offering comparable purses without huge signing bonuses, your POV would have merit. They’re not leveraging weaknesses in the PGA, they’re overwhelming them with huge money. This is like you bidding against Bezos and calling it a fair fight. 

That's open, free market business... tons of history on "hostile takeovers".

[shootmyage]

watching c. smith play since he came on the tour , he looks to have the complete game ( could hit the driver a little straighter ) i think he could become the next rory m.

 if   smith  120 mil - masuyama 150 mil -  fowler 80 mil and 5-6 other big names --50 mil each go liv it would be a big blow to the pga , so far the pga has not taken a big hit ( dj was close  as was brooks  k. ) ( phil was a fan favorite ) , the rest no big deal

i will add a player i like to watch is hovland , he is a great asset to the pga , always smiling , never beats his clubs into the grown , you can tell he is very happy where he is at and loves what he is doing .

just my thoughts . 

Edited July 21, 2022 by shootmyage

[MacTourney]

1 hour ago, fixyurdivot said:

That's open, free market business... tons of history on "hostile takeovers".

[RickyBobby_PR]

2 hours ago, fixyurdivot said:

Yeah, good point. Only some of the players bonus bucks have been revealed and these aren't even confirmed.  NDA's will likely keep things cloaked for a bit but, in today's world, most details see the light of day sooner than later.  Also, who knows what other perks and monetary opportunities might be unique to each contract.  It seems to me that the front office is strategically targeting certain players in hopes that builds interest from various countries and perhaps a pipeline of other players from places like Japan, Australia, South Africa, etc.

One aspect of this that we've not discussed (or I haven't seen it) is the opening up of opportunities for KF and college players. Breaking through should become a little easier.  On the flip side, they could start targeting KF and college phenoms... we're watching a high stakes poker game.

I don’t know if it will open more spots as there’s a system in place based on qualifications. What it will do is those who have to fight for a spot each week or hope that someone above them doesn’t play is open up more opportunities for those guys to into events and also make it easier on the KF guys when they do come on tour to get a spot in an event.

1 hour ago, shootmyage said:

watching c. smith play since he came on the tour , he looks to have the complete game ( could hit the driver a little straighter ) i think he could become the next rory m.

 if   smith  120 mil - masuyama 150 mil -  fowler 80 mil and 5-6 other big names --50 mil each go liv it would be a big blow to the pga , so far the pga has not taken a big hit ( dj was close  as was brooks  k. ) ( phil was a fan favorite ) , the rest no big deal

i will add a player i like to watch is hovland , he is a great asset to the pga , always smiling , never beats his clubs into the grown , you can tell he is very happy where he is at and loves what he is doing .

just my thoughts . 

If fowler left it wouldn’t do as much damage as one thinks. He’s a good draw for in person and helping the ticket sales but I can tell you from personal experience he doesn’t bring in the crowds to make up for other big names. I’ve been to an event he was in. The crowds were down significantly despite several top players, because it was a Tiger event and Tiger want there.

Cam is a good player but he’s not bringing in fans either or getting them to turn in on a Sunday.

Matsuyama would hurt the Asian audience but he’s not exactly been doing anything lately.

There are plenty of big names that will let the tour still draw fans if these 3 left

[fixyurdivot]

1 hour ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

I don’t know if it will open more spots as there’s a system in place based on qualifications. What it will do is those who have to fight for a spot each week or hope that someone above them doesn’t play is open up more opportunities for those guys to into events and also make it easier on the KF guys when they do come on tour to get a spot in an event.

If fowler left it wouldn’t do as much damage as one thinks. He’s a good draw for in person and helping the ticket sales but I can tell you from personal experience he doesn’t bring in the crowds to make up for other big names. I’ve been to an event he was in. The crowds were down significantly despite several top players, because it was a Tiger event and Tiger want there.

Cam is a good player but he’s not bringing in fans either or getting them to turn in on a Sunday.

Matsuyama would hurt the Asian audience but he’s not exactly been doing anything lately.

There are plenty of big names that will let the tour still draw fans if these 3 left

Sorry, but all the replies saying that if this player goes, or that player goes, it won't matter made me think of this .

 

[Kenny B]

The Masters Dinner table is getting rather thin.

[MGoBlue100]

11 hours ago, chisag said:

... Here is a completely different reason I won't watch the LIV exhibitions. I used to watch most every PGA event when swings were wildly different, shot making was at a premium and the game seemed to have more personality. It used to be easy to identify a silhouette of a player but with so many cookie cutter swings I would not be able to distinguish half the field on any given week. But as swings became similar and distance began to overtake shotmaking my interest has diminished considerably. I cannot identify with a 200yd 8 iron or flying a 290yd bunker so weekly PGA tour events have been replaced by the LPGA. Still love the Majors and the Rider/Presidents Cup as well as a few courses like Pebble or the Muirfield Village but greatly prefer to watch Jr and College golf. 

... The ladies have a similar distance to my game and some players are even shorter than I am but as a scratch player the last player in any LPGA field would destroy me in a Pro Am. So I am watching excellence in a game I can identify with.   

Sure hope LIV doesn’t start a ladies tour. You’ll have to watch bowling. 

[MGoBlue100]

3 hours ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

I don’t know if it will open more spots as there’s a system in place based on qualifications. What it will do is those who have to fight for a spot each week or hope that someone above them doesn’t play is open up more opportunities for those guys to into events and also make it easier on the KF guys when they do come on tour to get a spot in an event.

If fowler left it wouldn’t do as much damage as one thinks. He’s a good draw for in person and helping the ticket sales but I can tell you from personal experience he doesn’t bring in the crowds to make up for other big names. I’ve been to an event he was in. The crowds were down significantly despite several top players, because it was a Tiger event and Tiger want there.

Cam is a good player but he’s not bringing in fans either or getting them to turn in on a Sunday.

Matsuyama would hurt the Asian audience but he’s not exactly been doing anything lately.

There are plenty of big names that will let the tour still draw fans if these 3 left

Only name of note there is Matsuyama. If he goes how many Japanese eyes will be on YouTube (or the network that gets broadcasting rights) to see him play?  It’s a global chess game, not just who cares in Omaha. 

[LICC]

7 hours ago, MGoBlue100 said:

Sure hope LIV doesn’t start a ladies tour. You’ll have to watch bowling. 

https://www.golfdigest.com/story/super-golf-league-updates-2022

LPGA commissioner Mollie Marcoux Samaan told The Times of London that she would “take the call” if LIV Golf CEO Greg Norman ever wanted to talk to her about the LPGA.

“It’s my responsibility to evaluate every opportunity,” Marcoux Samaan said in the report. “I would engage in a conversation if it would achieve our aim of promoting women’s golf but there needs to be input from players and sponsors. There’s a lot of factors to consider before we do business with LIV Golf.”

Edited July 22, 2022 by LICC

[RickyBobby_PR]

7 hours ago, MGoBlue100 said:

Only name of note there is Matsuyama. If he goes how many Japanese eyes will be on YouTube (or the network that gets broadcasting rights) to see him play?  It’s a global chess game, not just who cares in Omaha. 

It will be a lot. I don’t know the Japanese viewership numbers but I don’t think it hurts the tv or in person numbers that much