Will the end of the student loan repayment pause affect golf?

[AndySP]

I gotta believe I’m not the only one looking at my upcoming October payment and thinking that my golf budget is going to take significant hit. I’ve read that some housing experts expect some issues to last a few years, but I wonder about recreation as well. It’s always the first thing to go when my money is tight. Will courses have fewer millennials next year? Anyone else have any thoughts, concerns or reassuring wisdom?

[chisag]

46 minutes ago, AndySP said:

I gotta believe I’m not the only one looking at my upcoming October payment and thinking that my golf budget is going to take significant hit. I’ve read that some housing experts expect some issues to last a few years, but I wonder about recreation as well. It’s always the first thing to go when my money is tight. Will courses have fewer millennials next year? Anyone else have any thoughts, concerns or reassuring wisdom?

 

... One of the most depressing things I hear from my fellow Boomers is "I had to pay for my college, so these kids should to". Without even getting into the fact that my student loan was a much lower percentage and my interest didn't start until I graduated or left college, the selfishness in that statement is just astounding. College has ceased to be about getting education and is a For Profit endeavor, as are the loans. Higher interest that starts the minute you take out the loan from the vultures. It sucks for the younger generation to start off in such a deep hole and almost zero chance of affording a home. In Phoenix even affording an apartment is difficult as the prices are insanely high. Hopefully something works in your favor and I wish you the best of luck moving forward. 

[revkev]

3 hours ago, AndySP said:

I gotta believe I’m not the only one looking at my upcoming October payment and thinking that my golf budget is going to take significant hit. I’ve read that some housing experts expect some issues to last a few years, but I wonder about recreation as well. It’s always the first thing to go when my money is tight. Will courses have fewer millennials next year? Anyone else have any thoughts, concerns or reassuring wisdom?

Andy, thanks for posting this.  When I first saw it I thought, well I feel bad but there is so much else to worry about that this one is low on the totem pole.  You articulated your concern in such a way that I was able to get it.  BTW I am a boomer who paid his student loans but am firmly in the camp that there needs to be some sort of relief.  Other countries make college affordable, my loans were at ridiculously low rates so much so that I was never in a rush to pay them off.  

 

To your concern where there is a will, there's a way.  Perhaps its playing less but making sure you get some short game practice in (that's free) to stay sharp.  I don't know your life circumstance but you live in a very expensive place.  If you have flexibility you might find a Midwestern State (other than Illinois) far more budget friendly.  One of the best things ever for my golf game was moving from Connecticut to Indiana for school - I actually had more disposable income working part time in Indiana, while attending Seminary, with my wife working full time.  Plus golf was far more affordable and once our son was 4 or 5 the courses were very family friendly, they never minded if I took him with me when I was playing so long as it was offpeak time.

 

At any rate, you have options, it will work out, just put that thinking cap that you earned through your education on.  And I hope we find some relief for those loans in the coming years.  

[RickyBobby_PR]

1 minute ago, revkev said:

Andy, thanks for posting this.  When I first saw it I thought, well I feel bad but there is so much else to worry about that this one is low on the totem pole.  You articulated your concern in such a way that I was able to get it.  BTW I am a boomer who paid his student loans but am firmly in the camp that there needs to be some sort of relief.  Other countries make college affordable, my loans were at ridiculously low rates so much so that I was never in a rush to pay them off.  

 

To your concern where there is a will, there's a way.  Perhaps its playing less but making sure you get some short game practice in (that's free) to stay sharp.  I don't know your life circumstance but you live in a very expensive place.  If you have flexibility you might find a Midwestern State (other than Illinois) far more budget friendly.  One of the best things ever for my golf game was moving from Connecticut to Indiana for school - I actually had more disposable income working part time in Indiana, while attending Seminary, with my wife working full time.  Plus golf was far more affordable and once our son was 4 or 5 the courses were very family friendly, they never minded if I took him with me when I was playing so long as it was offpeak time.

 

At any rate, you have options, it will work out, just put that thinking cap that you earned through your education on.  And I hope we find some relief for those loans in the coming years.  

It was affordable til the government took over student loans and pretty much anyone can get one these days. Of course colleges and universities are going to take tuition because the governments going to give the money to anyone wanting to go to school.

Too many young people sold on the go to college to get a better job, yet they choose degrees that have careers that pay little to no money or don’t have many jobs that needs filing. 

[silver & black]

3 hours ago, AndySP said:

I gotta believe I’m not the only one looking at my upcoming October payment and thinking that my golf budget is going to take significant hit. I’ve read that some housing experts expect some issues to last a few years, but I wonder about recreation as well. It’s always the first thing to go when my money is tight. Will courses have fewer millennials next year? Anyone else have any thoughts, concerns or reassuring wisdom?

How did you manage before the loan forgiveness program? 

[John W Sutch]

Really?  A student loan is a contract just like a mortgage or auto loan. You knew what the requirements were when you took out the loan. Therefore, you are obligated to pay back the loan. You're going to have to budget your money to pay the loan and pay for your golf. Hope your degree is useful to you. 

[russtopherb]

1 hour ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

It was affordable til the government took over student loans and pretty much anyone can get one these days. Of course colleges and universities are going to take tuition because the governments going to give the money to anyone wanting to go to school.

Too many young people sold on the go to college to get a better job, yet they choose degrees that have careers that pay little to no money or don’t have many jobs that needs filing. 

Stick to talking about the golf swing. You actually know something about that topic. 

[revkev]

I didn't read that he was saying he wasn't going to pay the loan back.  He's just wondering how he's going to manage both that and golf.  He's also wondering if this will have an impact on the golfing boom.  I think those are legitimate questions.  

[silver & black]

2 hours ago, russtopherb said:

Stick to talking about the golf swing. You actually know something about that topic. 

Wow. How about this whole thread/topic should just be locked before it gets out of hand?

7 hours ago, AndySP said:

I gotta believe I’m not the only one looking at my upcoming October payment and thinking that my golf budget is going to take significant hit. I’ve read that some housing experts expect some issues to last a few years, but I wonder about recreation as well. It’s always the first thing to go when my money is tight. Will courses have fewer millennials next year? Anyone else have any thoughts, concerns or reassuring wisdom?

How did you manage before the loan forgiveness program? 

Edited September 27, 2023 by silver & black

[AndySP]

7 hours ago, chisag said:

Hopefully something works in your favor and I wish you the best of luck moving forward. 

 

4 hours ago, revkev said:

Perhaps it’s playing less but making sure you get some short game practice in (that's free) to stay sharp.  I don't know your life circumstance but you live in a very expensive place.  If you have flexibility you…

Thanks guys! That’s a good plan. I will definitely take some time to practice my short game, and maybe I’ll even make some friends with the employees and get a deal…who knows. Maybe there will be other folks like me spending more time on the putting green, that would actually be pretty cool.

@revkev read my question how I intended it. I didn’t mean to make this about myself, but for what it’s worth, I’m not in any financial trouble or trying to complain about the cost of education. My wife, daughter and I happily live in a decent area and plan to stay here for a while. She is a professor of chemistry/biology and I am a deputy attorney for the state. We’re happy and can take care of ourselves.

I  am not saying that I won’t be able to pay anything back, or anything like that. I’m only thinking about the fact that golf requires disposable income, and the way payments are calculated, a lot of people like me will not be able to afford as much golf as was possible during the pause. So I wonder what effects that might have on golf, which really exploded for other folks in my generation during the pandemic. Will see see anything change, or am I and some economists overreacting? 

55 minutes ago, silver & black said:

How did you manage before the loan forgiveness program? 

Well, I paid them and didn’t play golf…that’s kind of the point of my post. Like a lot of people around my age, the loan forgiveness program happened in the years when we were just starting to make “golf money.” My question is whether I am alone in this financial position, and what that means for luxuries, like golf. 

[GaryF]

I’m not sure I should throw in my $.02 or not, but here goes.  I’m a boomer and successfully retired, but do understand the plight of today's college graduates, but have mixed emotions.  Growing up in MI, it was always assumed I would go to college, and I graduated with in electrical engineering (EE) in 1975.  (It takes a EE to spell geek).  I worked construction jobs in the summers and part time jobs off and on during the school year and paid for about 95% of room, board, tuition, books and 100% beer.  I was the first person in my family to graduate. 

Seven years later after relocating to FL, I started and finished grad school, but my employer paid 100% of my tuition as it was job related (more engineering & math). In those short 7 years, I was amazed at how much tuition had risen. And FL was and still is one of the more affordable states.  In subsequent years, I noticed some colleges increasing the number of credits to graduate, requiring in some cases at least one full time summer semester, etc in order to grab more money. 

In my younger years, college was being promoted as the ‘ticket’ and still is, yet many good, high paying jobs are available through many trades.  My wife and I raised our 2 daughters on the ‘college’ track, and fortunately, they loved school.  We told them we would pay their college expenses.  The only caveat was they had to major in something that could lead to a job.  They were both excellent students and received 75% tuition scholarships for their BS and BA degrees. My wife and I paid the rest.  My youngest ended up getting a teaching assistance ship to get her masters in accounting and ended up at one of the Big4.  My oldest majored in M&M then decided to change gears and we ended paying for her to get a nursing degree then a degree in Advanced Nurse Practicing (3 years total). 

We were fortunate to be able to help our daughters.  We paid for books, living expenses, car, and my oldest dau 2nd and 3rd degree.    I did well income wise, but for their school years, golf was mostly a vacation endeavor for quite a few years.   We budgeted, we saved, we sacrificed.  Not easy when in their younger years our home loan was 10.5% fha and took many years to trickle down through refinancing.   In hindsight, should they have taken loans?  Maybe yes, but on the other hand they would have by now paid them off.  

I guess in summary, I think there should be a number of caveats before any loan, or part of a loan should be qualified to be forgiven, including changes in the college system/machine.  I’m ok with it as long as it’s not a blanket forgiveness program.  And in that regard, I can completely understand those that are against loan forgiveness, and to be called selfish, without context, is flagrantly insulting.  Times are tough certainly, but not the first time - a lot of things are broken in this country - the dam is leaking and springing new ones ever day. 
 

 

[revkev]

@AndySP - thanks for the greater detail.  I never interpreted your op as a complaint.  I had not thought of it before so I'm glad you raised the point.  I do wonder what impact this will have on the boom because a lot of young people did take up golf during the pandemic.  

I also have nothing against the Northeast, I grew up there, the reality is that it is expensive and I was trying to suggest an outside of the box answer.  With the careers that you and your wife have chosen you each need a lot of education and may have significant student loan debt.  You are also doing jobs that are very helpful to society.  I wish you both well on your careers.  I also have an advanced professional degree but was fortunate enough to have a good deal of it subsidized so my loan burden was not that great and as Chisag said the interest rates were favorable - under 2 percent as I recall it.  

[AndySP]

@revkev yeah I was kind of reacting to other people. I know student loans are a hot topic, and I got a little close to the sun. I didn’t mean to sound terse when replying to you, my wife and I have often day-dreamed about moving to places that are a cheaper. I used to live in NYC and before that Chicago…so almost anywhere, haha. 
 

Thankfully, my wife is the smart one who was paid to go to school, so we only have to pay off my debts. I know a married couple whose combined med school debts approach half a million, and other friends who are struggling with $40k outstanding. But the struggle is relative and everyone deserves the benefit of curiosity before blame.
 

There is a lot of student debt, almost $2 trillion that is about to go live again. I just hope that the financial forecast in the coming years does not  negatively affect golf and the people who play it. I read some scary sounding predictions with mortgages and home values and it made me think about the 2008 crisis. For a lot of people golf is therapy, and in todays world, we all deserve a place to relax and have fun.

[Swood1994]

I think the key piece @AndySP said it’s all relative. I would say the majority of “millennials” who took out student loans aren’t saying they shouldn’t pay them back. BUT the ones that want full forgiveness are a touch louder. I think there’s a compromise somewhere in there. Our parents generation could get by on a 2 year degree and make a living and those that went to 4 year schools (or more) was at a fraction of the cost we are seeing now. 

We almost did not have the choice to not go to college. I remember vividly being told that was the only option by teachers and counselors. Yet a lot of my uncles/family friends all worked in trades and did very well for themselves. My mother was able to retire from a state job at 55 with only a 2yr degree. My father recently retired at 62 as a career tractor trailer driver. I’m not sure that is even possible for younger generations given today’s economic climate.

All that being said I think we all understand that student loans play a larger part in people’s live than they did 20-30-40 years ago. Are some degrees more profitable than others? Absolutely. But at the end of the day this effects everyone that makes up the economy not just the ones with the loans. 

[RickyBobby_PR]

My $.02 and then I’m out

There’s no such thing as forgiveness. That money has to be paid off by someone. If it’s not the person taking out the loan then it will be passed onto the rest of the taxpayers. Many who are currently living in what’s considered poverty thanks to the rising inflation, higher taxes. They can’t afford to be crippled with more debt that they aren’t responsible for.

Its not selfish to want people to pay off their student loans and not pass the buck to those who have paid theirs off or chosen another route via trades that didn’t have debt.

what’s next forgive home loan debts for loans that people can no longer afford because of the current economy? What about auto loans or credit card debt.

 

 

[russtopherb]

MGS really needs to come up with a clown response emoji for some of the absolutely ill-informed and quite frankly, ridiculous posts in this thread. 

If you don't know what "loan forgiveness" actually means, and who would qualify for it, maybe do 30 seconds of research beforehand. Or not, you could just keep posting boomer nonsense. 

Threads like this are why forums that stick to golf and avoid off-topic stay decent. MGS used to be that way, I hope this isn't a sign of things to come. 

[JohnSmalls]

Great questions from @AndySP, thanks for being willing to bring up such a topic.  Great points on both sides of the discussion.  We don't have to agree.  Let's leave the mudslinging for the guys not on the forum. 

[RickyBobby_PR]

1 hour ago, russtopherb said:

MGS really needs to come up with a clown response emoji for some of the absolutely ill-informed and quite frankly, ridiculous posts in this thread. 

If you don't know what "loan forgiveness" actually means, and who would qualify for it, maybe do 30 seconds of research beforehand. Or not, you could just keep posting boomer nonsense. 

Threads like this are why forums that stick to golf and avoid off-topic stay decent. MGS used to be that way, I hope this isn't a sign of things to come. 

Or you cooks just stop being passive aggressive in your responses to people you don’t agree with.

Maybe the mods will do something about those posts. And not let threads get derailed by them.

[chisag]

4 hours ago, russtopherb said:

If you don't know what "loan forgiveness" actually means, and who would qualify for it, maybe do 30 seconds of research beforehand. 

 

... This report from the Economic Policy Institute a nonprofit, nonpartisan think tank created in 1986 to include the needs of low- and middle-income workers in economic policy discussions. This is exactly why I tend to favor the working man and loan forgiveness over voracious corporate greed. I'd much rather give a break to a college kid than increase the profits of a CEO and Board Members. Us Boomers had already graduated by 1978. 


Summary: CEOs are granted massive compensation packages by corporate boards because of their bargaining power, not because of their skills. CEOs’ exorbitant payouts have far outpaced the pay of typical workers over decades.    

Key findings

CEO pay is linked strongly to the stock market—and market declines in 2022 led to an uncharacteristic dip in CEO pay.  Cumulatively, however, from 1978–2022, top CEO compensation shot up 1,209.2% compared with a 15.3% increase in a typical worker’s compensation. 

In 2022, CEOs were paid 344 times as much as a typical worker in contrast to 1965 when they were paid 21 times as much as a typical worker. To illustrate just how distorted CEO pay increases have gotten: In 2021, CEOs made nearly eight times as much as the top 0.1% of wage earners in the U.S. 

Why this matters

Exorbitant CEO pay is not just a symbolic issue—it has contributed to rising inequality. CEOs are getting paid more because of their leverage over corporate boards, not because of contributions they make to their firms. Escalating CEO pay in recent decades has likely pulled up the pay of other top earners. This concentration of earnings at the top leaves fewer gains for ordinary workers.  

[chisag]

5 hours ago, russtopherb said:

MGS really needs to come up with a clown response emoji for some of the absolutely ill-informed and quite frankly, ridiculous posts in this thread. 

 

... Just so you know, there is a clown response. 

 

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[russtopherb]

3 minutes ago, chisag said:

 

... Just so you know, there is a clown response. 

 

Ignored Users

Ignoring a user allows you to block some or all of their content from showing. Users are not notified that you are ignoring them.
 

OK now we're going completely OT but since I came in hot I'll follow up, because I'm not one to slink away after posting something. 

I try to separate the posts/comments from the poster. Yeah I definitely have an ignore list here, but that's something that's built up over a long period of time, and many, many posts. Or a few posts that are so egregious that I don't want to see anything else from that poster. I do my best to not live in an echo chamber, and I recognize that just because someone posts something I don't agree with (or think is a ridiculously ill-informed comment that stems from lack of research/knowledge) doesn't mean I don't want to see their other posts. It just drives me nuts that in a day and age when you can spend hours researching launch characteristics of a driver, you can't take 30 seconds to research something else. 

It also drives me nuts that I know going into some threads is just going to tick me off, but I do it anyways LOL.

[Vegan_Golfer_PNW]

6 hours ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

My $.02 and then I’m out

There’s no such thing as forgiveness. That money has to be paid off by someone. If it’s not the person taking out the loan then it will be passed onto the rest of the taxpayers. Many who are currently living in what’s considered poverty thanks to the rising inflation, higher taxes. They can’t afford to be crippled with more debt that they aren’t responsible for.

Its not selfish to want people to pay off their student loans and not pass the buck to those who have paid theirs off or chosen another route via trades that didn’t have debt.

what’s next forgive home loan debts for loans that people can no longer afford because of the current economy? What about auto loans or credit card debt.

 

 

I will say, when it comes to student loans things are a crock. I don't have any but my wife does. In the US, it is one of the few countries where post primary education needs to be paid for by a person seeking a degree. With rising costs of tuition and cost of living, it is almost impossible to not have to take out student loans now. On top of that is the timeframes to pay them off in general, especially when teachers, for example, rack up 50-70k in student loans but only make ~35k annually in most states. Another point,  people that also took out these loans aren't actually doing what their degree was set out to be. Its a big quandary. 

Now, when it comes to home loans, auto, credit card debit, I believe those do not need forgiveness. Folks usually apply for a home loan with some semblance of a job. I was fortunate to get a home before the huge rate hikes as well as home price hikes around COVID that haven't fallen yet. Now I do get it, issues happen where folks need to re-fi to pay for other things like medical emergencies (don't get me started about medical care costs in the US, that should be fixed along with student loans.)and stuff. It is where having a good financial advisor is so beneficial. People need to learn to better understand what they can afford. As what @chisag said about CEO pay. The rich get richer and the gap widens for those that work for "The Man". Where I live, my salary in most places would be upper middle class, but I am closer to average middle class due to being a single income home, the price of goods out here, etc... I do find time to play golf, so that is not an issue. Howeve,m things are going to get interesting once we have to start paying off student loans again.

[Berg Ryman]

So I'll add my two cents here. Luckily, I qualify as an attorney working in public interest for the PSLF program and am almost halfway there, but it's undoubtedly difficult to fund projects and my wife and I are taking stock of potential things. Luckily with the new SAVE program and REPAYE before it, I've been able to make reasonable payments knowing that as long as I stick it out and work hard, I've got 67 months left until forgiveness. But that's going to be a long five and a half years for me and my wife, who are looking at buying a house, starting a family, etc. We've done okay for ourselves, but it's difficult with all potential payments going out in different spots.

[chisag]

5 minutes ago, russtopherb said:

OK now we're going completely OT but since I came in hot I'll follow up, because I'm not one to slink away after posting something. 

I try to separate the posts/comments from the poster. Yeah I definitely have an ignore list here, but that's something that's built up over a long period of time, and many, many posts. Or a few posts that are so egregious that I don't want to see anything else from that poster. I do my best to not live in an echo chamber, and I recognize that just because someone posts something I don't agree with (or think is a ridiculously ill-informed comment that stems from lack of research/knowledge) doesn't mean I don't want to see their other posts. It just drives me nuts that in a day and age when you can spend hours researching launch characteristics of a driver, you can't take 30 seconds to research something else. 

It also drives me nuts that I know going into some threads is just going to tick me off, but I do it anyways LOL.

 

... Oh, I am right there with you and a difference of opinion no matter how aggressively stated just once, isn't gonna earn anyone a spot on my ignore list. But repeated Obtusity is just something I have no desire to entertain. We can't and shouldn't get into politics on a golf forum (or sadly in todays climate, anywhere else for that matter ) but there are some that just see things as black and white and just don't recognize almost everything is a gray area. 

[hckymeyer]

Let's get this thing back on track to the original question rather than the pro's/con's of loan forgiveness.  

I do think we are heading towards a situation where leisure activities take a hit and decline in participation due to not just loan payments starting up again, but the rise of interest rates and inflation in general.  Let's be honest, the pie is only so big and leisure activities that are expensive are going to be some of the first offenders that don't get to eat anymore.

Some things I'd suggest to lessen the burden would be practicing more to get your fix in like Rev mentioned.  Look into twilight rates and off peak tee times, walk instead of ride (if you aren't already), cut down on the food/beverage expenses when golfing.  A little farther out there for a solution would be looking into joining a club with a reasonable membership rate?  If you golf enough you could actually make it cheaper per round   

Don't get new clubs (I know, that's blasphemy!), make those shoes last another year, try a less expensive golf ball etc...

All I can say is best of luck balancing that budget and hopefully you can still carve out a piece for golf!  After all if you don't take care of your mental health you won't be good for anybody!

[chisag]

2 minutes ago, Berg Ryman said:

So I'll add my two cents here. Luckily, I qualify as an attorney working in public interest for the PSLF program and am almost halfway there, but it's undoubtedly difficult to fund projects and my wife and I are taking stock of potential things. Luckily with the new SAVE program and REPAYE before it, I've been able to make reasonable payments knowing that as long as I stick it out and work hard, I've got 67 months left until forgiveness. But that's going to be a long five and a half years for me and my wife, who are looking at buying a house, starting a family, etc. We've done okay for ourselves, but it's difficult with all potential payments going out in different spots.

 

... Unsaid in this discussion is the value of college from a social perspective. My freshman year was the most enlightening year of my life. I had a racist room mate and proud of it, from a very small NC town that was literally 100% caucasian. Thankfully I was able to swap room mates. Halfway through the semester, and remember this was 1971, he came to me and said he had no idea what "black people were like" because had been told his entire life they were evil. This of course is just one example of being exposed to so many things you may not have experienced at home. Another kid was laughed at for wearing a robe, shower cap with flip flops he kept on in the shower, and would only take a shower late at night because he didn't want share the community dorm bathroom with other students. By the end of the first semester he was walking around naked in the bathroom with a towel over his shoulder and could not have cared less if others were there. 

... So college can provide dual educations both scholastic and social. Even if your career major doesn't pan out in the real world, you are most likely a better and more rounded person after attending college. Sadly, those in todays financial bind with the out of control costs and attending college from home miss out on perhaps the best part of their education. 

[Berg Ryman]

4 minutes ago, chisag said:

 

... Unsaid in this discussion is the value of college from a social perspective. My freshman year was the most enlightening year of my life. I had a racist room mate and proud of it, from a very small NC town that was literally 100% caucasian. Thankfully I was able to swap room mates. Halfway through the semester, and remember this was 1971, he came to me and said he had no idea what "black people were like" because had been told his entire life they were evil. This of course is just one example of being exposed to so many things you may not have experienced at home. Another kid was laughed at for wearing a robe, shower cap with flip flops he kept on in the shower, and would only take a shower late at night because he didn't want share the community dorm bathroom with other students. By the end of the first semester he was walking around naked in the bathroom with a towel over his shoulder and could not have cared less if others were there. 

... So college can provide dual educations both scholastic and social. Even if your career major doesn't pan out in the real world, you are most likely a better and more rounded person after attending college. Sadly, those in todays financial bind with the out of control costs and attending college from home miss out on perhaps the best part of their education. 

Real talk here, I failed out of undergrad freshman year because the adjustment was incredibly hard on me. I don't make friends easily and was, and still am, very socially awkward. Getting paired with a Jersey Shore knockoff from Long Island who wanted me to turn some stuff I was writing into raps so I could be a rap battle partner was... not ideal for me. He eventually moved out on me, no one replaced him, so I was very much in solitude mentally and emotionally, which was incredibly unhealthy for me at 18. It forces you to look at your flaws, figure out how to adjust, and get on with your life in a productive manner. I didn't do that, failed out, did a semester in community college and went back to get my degree then, but it was humbling to have that happen to me and the loss of scholarship and the like wasn't ideal either.

I do agree with @hckymeyer though, smart choices can impact your ability to spend in a positive manner. It's tough because my wife wants me to play more and do things I like because she feels as if we do too much of 'her' activities, but we're honest about our limits, set them solidly, and do what we can right now to get by.

[bens197]

7 hours ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

My $.02 and then I’m out

There’s no such thing as forgiveness. That money has to be paid off by someone. If it’s not the person taking out the loan then it will be passed onto the rest of the taxpayers. Many who are currently living in what’s considered poverty thanks to the rising inflation, higher taxes. They can’t afford to be crippled with more debt that they aren’t responsible for.

Its not selfish to want people to pay off their student loans and not pass the buck to those who have paid theirs off or chosen another route via trades that didn’t have debt.

what’s next forgive home loan debts for loans that people can no longer afford because of the current economy? What about auto loans or credit card debt.

 

 

This is where the entire topic loses me….these low EQ, red-herring arguments are designed to infuriate the public in lieu of critical thinking.  

If loans were issued at 0% then it would be passing the buck.  Compounding interest since inception means the lenders have been collecting principal PLUS on money they borrow for free.  

Way too many people are actively looking to be inconvenienced and aggrieved participants of society.  Perhaps it’s how we’ve allowed the world to exist.  Constant bombardment of twitter and 24 hour news cycles telling us what we should despise on a weekly basis.

Misinformation projects have distracted many from this simple point…

The loan forgiveness proposed by the current administration was seeking a PARTIAL $10,000 ($20,000 for Perkins loans and if you know anything about Perkins, you’re pretty much at the poverty level to be eligible) forgiveness of your loans.  I don’t have the exact numbers but if you’re receiving $10,000 relief on this arbitrary number of say, $80,000 dollars, you’re still on the hook for $70K plus interest as well what what you’ve already paid since taking the loan(s).

The selective outrage needs to stop. 

Let’s all take a deep breath and remember that it’s OK that some relief is distributed amongst the working class.  They are not your enemy.

 

Now, will it affect the golf business…certainly.  

[bens197]

54 minutes ago, chisag said:

 

... Unsaid in this discussion is the value of college from a social perspective. My freshman year was the most enlightening year of my life. I had a racist room mate and proud of it, from a very small NC town that was literally 100% caucasian. Thankfully I was able to swap room mates. Halfway through the semester, and remember this was 1971, he came to me and said he had no idea what "black people were like" because had been told his entire life they were evil. This of course is just one example of being exposed to so many things you may not have experienced at home. Another kid was laughed at for wearing a robe, shower cap with flip flops he kept on in the shower, and would only take a shower late at night because he didn't want share the community dorm bathroom with other students. By the end of the first semester he was walking around naked in the bathroom with a towel over his shoulder and could not have cared less if others were there. 

... So college can provide dual educations both scholastic and social. Even if your career major doesn't pan out in the real world, you are most likely a better and more rounded person after attending college. Sadly, those in todays financial bind with the out of control costs and attending college from home miss out on perhaps the best part of their education. 

I asked this question to my wife’s best friend who has served as a Dean of two respected Universities in the NE.  

She said school has two purposes, education for life and education for employment.

I think everyone here can come to their own conclusions…value education for the sum of its parts regardless of what degree you earn.

[hohjoe]

On 9/27/2023 at 1:19 PM, chisag said:

 

... One of the most depressing things I hear from my fellow Boomers is "I had to pay for my college, so these kids should to". Without even getting into the fact that my student loan was a much lower percentage and my interest didn't start until I graduated or left college, the selfishness in that statement is just astounding. College has ceased to be about getting education and is a For Profit endeavor, as are the loans. Higher interest that starts the minute you take out the loan from the vultures. It sucks for the younger generation to start off in such a deep hole and almost zero chance of affording a home. In Phoenix even affording an apartment is difficult as the prices are insanely high. Hopefully something works in your favor and I wish you the best of luck moving forward. 

I typed a number of responses to this yesterday and deleted them and walked away from the laptop.

However, as a boomer, I’ll say this: my wife (now ex) and I paid for the daughter’s tuition. It was a struggle but we did it. I’ll happily help with my grandkids. I don’t believe I need to pay for anyone else’s college tuition. And I don’t believe that is in any way selfish.

 

 

Edited September 28, 2023 by hohjoe